I have provided all of the information that I have. The functionality of the system as a whole is questionable. Without contractor shop drawings there is no way to surmise the type of system or how it was actually designed other than by what you can physically see. There is a list of "why did they do that", "how did they come up with that number" and other various design and installation questions that just don't make good sense.
So thanks for all the input but that's about all we've got. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29303 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] > On Jul 3, 2014, at 6:52 PM, Mike Cabral <[email protected]> wrote: > > Supervisory air is a necessary component for single interlock. No supervisory > air and it's not even a dry pipe system. We are not getting required > information regarding this installation. > > This might be a Supertex system using HAD's. From what I recall from the > thread there was no releasing panel or no access to the panel very strange, > now no supervisory air? What's the compressor for? > > A photo of the riser would be helpful. > > Mike > > Happy Holliday > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 3, 2014, at 5:01 PM, Kenneth Berman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> If there's no pneumatic supervision of piping, and there's been no >> mention of a pilot line, it sounds like a single interlock. >> >> >>> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 10:32 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> OK, there we are. >>> >>> One other thing I just discovered, there is no pneumatic >>> supervision of the piping. The only air compressor served a dry standpipe >>> system. >>> >>> >>> >>> Craig L. Prahl >>> Fire Protection Group Lead >>> CH2MHILL >>> Lockwood Greene >>> 1500 International Drive >>> Spartanburg, SC 29303 >>> Direct - 864.599.4102 >>> Fax - 864.599.8439 >>> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:13 AM >>> To: '[email protected]' >>> Subject: RE: Identification of preaction system types >>> >>> 1999 has 30% increase for dry and preaction systems protecting rack >>> storage 7-4.1.5.2 and 7-4.1.5.3. There is a bar next to the paragraphs. >>> There is also an exception that says the requirement does not apply >>> to preaction systems where it can be demonstrated that the detection >>> system activates the system as quickly as a wet pipe system. Sounds >>> like the beginning of a new requirement... >>> >>> Duane Johnson, PE >>> Program Manager >>> Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research >>> Services National Institutes of Health >>> 301-496-0487 >>> >>> "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:07 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Identification of preaction system types >>> >>> That's what I'm trying to track down. When did that provision go away? >>> >>> I know today's requirements, just need verification of design >>> requirements or allowances in 1982. >>> >>> I have a copy of NFPA 231 from 1978 but it doesn't address NFPA 13 >>> issues nor speak of preaction systems. >>> >>> Craig L. Prahl >>> Fire Protection Group Lead >>> CH2MHILL >>> Lockwood Greene >>> 1500 International Drive >>> Spartanburg, SC 29303 >>> Direct - 864.599.4102 >>> Fax - 864.599.8439 >>> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of John >>> Denhardt >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 10:56 AM >>> To: '[email protected]' >>> Subject: RE: Identification of preaction system types >>> >>> There is no increase in remote area on single interlocked back in the day. >>> Several editions ago (??) that was deleted for storage. Now there >>> is a 30% increase in remote area for all pre-action systems in storage. >>> Thanks, >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> John August Denhardt, P.E., FSFPE >>> >>> Strickland Fire Protection Incorporated >>> >>> 5113 Berwyn Road >>> >>> College Park, Maryland 20740 >>> >>> Office Telephone Number: 301-474-1136 >>> >>> Mobile Telephone Number: 301-343-1457 >>> >>> FIRE SPRINKLERS SAVE LIVES - Can you live without them? >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> [email protected] >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 10:55 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Identification of preaction system types >>> >>> Thanks for all the input. >>> >>> I don't have access to the releasing panel. >>> >>> The hydraulic placard gives no indication of the system type. >>> Design data is 0.26/4000 but that lines up exactly with the 1978 >>> NFPA 231 for Class IV commodities so no real help there. It doesn't >>> appear they provided for the 30% increase for dry system. >>> >>> I thought I had seen at some point in time within NFPA 13 that one >>> of the preaction system types (I believe it was single interlock) >>> were considered the same as wet due to water filling pipes before >>> sprinkler operation and therefore did not require the 30% increase >>> in design area. I can't seem to find that verbiage in past or >>> present NFPA 13 Standards now that I'm looking for it. Any clues or was I >>> mislead? >>> >>> I have Engineer's drawings from 1982, no contractor shop drawings or >>> calculations. >>> >>> There are no data sheets. >>> >>> There are no test reports. >>> >>> Yes, I love impossible >>> challenges.......................................to >>> a point. >>> >>> >>> Craig L. Prahl >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Izzo, >>> Salvatore >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 10:25 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Identification of preaction system types >>> >>> If the warehouse is unheated, that is, if there is a chance of >>> freezing, it is my opinion that it would be doubtfulto find a single >>> interlock preaction system; therefore, it would likely be a double >>> interlock. You could look at the design area on the hydraulic >>> placard ( if there is one) as one way of making the determination. >>> Take a look at the trim, and if you do not see a pneumatic actuator >>> in addition to the solenoid, it is likely that it is an >>> electric-electric type double interlock system. This can be >>> verified by looking at the releasing panel input zones and >>> determining if the low air pressure switch is wired into an alarm >>> zone rather than a low air supervisory zone. Of course, you can verify the >>> manufacturer and compare to the data sheets as well. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Salvatore J. Izzo III, P.E. SFPE >>> Manager - QA/QC Operations >>> Insurance Services Office >>> Verisk Commercial Real Estate >>> 545 Washington Blvd. >>> Jersey City, NJ 07310 - 1686 >>> t 201.469.2486 >>> f 201.748.1942 >>> c 732.533.7927 >>> [email protected] >>> www.verisk.com/insurance >>> >>> Verisk Insurance Solutions ● ISO | AIR Worldwide | Xactware >>> -----Original >>> Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> [email protected] >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 9:13 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: Identification of preaction system types >>> >>> Ok, So what would be the tell-tale difference? >>> >>> Craig L. Prahl >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 9:12 AM >>> To: '[email protected]' >>> Subject: RE: Identification of preaction system types >>> >>> Nope. You have to look at the trim on the preaction valve. >>> >>> Duane Johnson, PE >>> Program Manager >>> Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research >>> Services National Institutes of Health >>> 301-496-0487 >>> >>> "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 9:09 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Identification of preaction system types >>> >>> Can you identify the type of preaction system installed just by >>> looking at the system riser? >>> >>> I have a warehouse, unheated, Preaction system of unknown type. >>> There are heat detectors at the roof deck and there is a small air >>> compressor. >>> >>> That's all I've got to go on. I can make assumptions all day long, >>> but no assumption is better than an incorrect assumption at this point. >>> >>> Craig L. Prahl >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>> kler.org _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>> kler.org _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>> kler.org _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>> kler.org _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>> kler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> ler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
