Travis hit the mark on this one Steven. I'd be very concerned if a
customer asked me to provide false information to an AHJ.
I don't know if I'd want to do business with a company who did such a
thing. In California, property owners are allowed to
have their own staff do the work you're referring to - valves, drain
tests, and so forth - provided they meet certain criteria, and
*they* fill in the reports.
If you're still pushing this one around a bit, maybe take a few minutes
and call your insurance company and ask them if they're
going to cover your firm if you fill in reports on work you didn't perform.
"Everyone else does it." So what? "Everyone else" doesn't pay my
insurance premiums or defend me in court.
That's enough reason for me to stay away from clients like this.
*Ken Wagoner, SET
*Parsley Consulting***
*350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
*Escondido, California 92025
*****Phone 760-745-6181*
Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/>
***
On 12/18/2014 3:42 PM, Travis Mack wrote:
Steve:
I agree with what you stated you are being asked to do - falsify a
document. I come across that from time to time. I just basically
tell my customers that I don't really care what the others before me
did. I will only do what I believe is correct and that I won't
jeopardize my reputation or integrity for any amount of money or for
any customer. Stick to your guns. If they won't respect your
integrity, you may want to rethink your relationship with them.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
2508 E Lodgepole Drive
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
email:[email protected]
http://www.mfpdesign.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
On 12/18/2014 4:38 PM, Steven Cook wrote:
Matt,
Will review section reference when I get back in front of computer.
Agree. Two completely different things. Basically, being asked to
produce fraudulent document stating we performed a test (drain and
alarm) that we didn't. Let's call it what it is. The above test
certificate contains a line for this data. If I'm not doing these
test, I'm not filling in the lines with data from their quarterly
inspection reports, falsely indicating I did. Looking for code
reference stating test is even required when working on a system.
Steven Cook
TG Gallagher
Sprinkler Operations Manager
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 18, 2014, at 5:11 PM, Matt Willis
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
You are being asked to mix apples and oranges. See 24.1 of 2010
edition if 13. You are certifying the system to 13. The inspection
reports are to 25. Two VERY different things.
R/
Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Steven Cook
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 3:00 PM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Test Certificates
I am looking for some guidance pertaining to completing test
certificates. Without giving specifics as to building location -
here is the summary: We are working in a very large facility with
multiple systems, pumps, etc. The property is large enough to have
their own in-house facilities / engineering crews that operate the
valves, or drain individual floors and restore to service upon
completion. As part of final closeout / acceptance of the project,
we typically provide a test certificate. The problem I am having is
at this property, where we don't operate the valves, the facilities
people are not allowing us to do a drain test or verify the time to
operate the alarms. Older building, no gauges on the FCVAs. I
have tried to just leave these lines blank or even indicated on the
test certificate these items weren't tested but the fire department
won't accept it (issue CO). The facility is indicating we should
just be copying the information over from their (sel
f-
performed) quarterly inspection reports. We will not do so WITHOUT
clearly stating the info was copied from the inspection report, which
the fire department has already indicated is unacceptable.
Obviously circumventing the intent of the testing. Tough spot -
being told the typical "everyone else in here copies it".
I am looking for the language in NFPA 13, 25, etc that I can use to
substantiate my position. Common sense explanation isn't getting it
done. No explanation as to why we aren't allowed to get these
readings. I want the specific code language to have as back-up
before I explain to these guys we might be all done working for them.
Help is greatly appreciated.
Steve Cook
Sprinkler Operations Manager
TG Gallagher
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