No they're not. Some label theirs as "less combustible" which is a misnomer. If there is a flash point or fire point, you still have a combustible liquid. We deal with the same issue with liquid cooled electrical transformers.
Some advertise they use vegetable oil instead of petrol based fluids. They might have higher flashpoints but they are still combustible. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29303 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Duane Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 10:30 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Bottom of elevator shaft protection Isn't the hydraulic fluid they use nowadays non combustible? Duane Johnson Strickland Fire Protection Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 1, 2015, at 10:28 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > You're not trying to protect the space against a full blown hydraulic fuel > fire. One or two sprinklers are not going to cover that, period. > > What you will encounter is debris that can have some hydraulic residue so > it's a little bit more than just plain paper or other miscellaneous > combustible debris. > > > Craig L. Prahl > Fire Protection Group Lead > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > John Denhardt > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 10:19 AM > To: '[email protected]' > Subject: RE: Bottom of elevator shaft protection > > Correct, but NFPA 13 states to use a sidewall sprinkler and they are not > allowed for Extra Hazard. Thus, one could assume the committee knew what is > what doing and was stating an ordinary hazard design was acceptable. The > Annex reference being quoted by the AHJ is not enforceable. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Matthew J Willis > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 10:21 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Bottom of elevator shaft protection > > Especially when you through in, > > 8.15.5.2 The sprinkler required at the bottom of the elevator hoistway by > 8.15.5.1 shall not be required for enclosed, noncombustible elevator shafts > that do not contain combustible hydraulic fluids. > > So there is the correlation for "combustible hydraulic fluids" > > R/ > Matt > > Matthew J. Willis > Project Manager > Rapid Fire Protection Inc. > 1805 Samco Road > Rapid City, SD 57702 > Office-605.348.2342 > Cell-605.391.2733 > Fax:-605.348.0108 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Matthew J Willis > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 8:03 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Bottom of elevator shaft protection > > Oh, trust me, I am all for it. However when the elevator is hydraulic, and > the AHJ points to that very section, and then the big ram in the > bottom..,which leg do we stand on? > > R/ > Matt > > Matthew J. Willis > Project Manager > Rapid Fire Protection Inc. > 1805 Samco Road > Rapid City, SD 57702 > Office-605.348.2342 > Cell-605.391.2733 > Fax:-605.348.0108 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > John Denhardt > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 7:47 AM > To: '[email protected]' > Subject: RE: Bottom of elevator shaft protection > > There are several issues with this approach: > - Sidewall sprinklers are only allowed for light or ordinary hazard and under > overhead doors (NFPA 13 - 2013: 8.4.2). > - NFPA 13 - 2013: 8.15.5.1 requires sidewall sprinklers for the bottom of > the elevator pit. > - NFPA 13 - 2013: A.8.15.5.1 "The sprinklers in the pit are intended to > protect against fires caused by debris, which can accumulate over time. > Ideally, the sprinklers should be located near the side of the pit below the > elevator doors, where most debris accumulates. However, care should be taken > that the sprinkler location does not interfere with the elevator toe guard, > which extends below the face of the door opening." No mention of combustible > hydraulic fluid. > > Extra Hazard??????? > > Just thinking out loud! > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Matthew J Willis > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 9:36 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Bottom of elevator shaft protection > > I had the 10 in parenthesis, my apologies > > Also I forgot to add.., OH1 because it is a mechanical room after all. > > R/ > Matt > > Matthew J. Willis > Project Manager > Rapid Fire Protection Inc. > 1805 Samco Road > Rapid City, SD 57702 > Office-605.348.2342 > Cell-605.391.2733 > Fax:-605.348.0108 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > John Denhardt > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 7:28 AM > To: '[email protected]' > Subject: RE: Bottom of elevator shaft protection > > What year is your reference? NFPA 13 - 2013? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Matthew J Willis > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 9:01 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Bottom of elevator shaft protection > > Ordinary if not hydraulic. EHI if combustible hydraulic fluid is used. > > A.5.4.1 (10) > > R/ > Matt > > Matthew J. Willis > Project Manager > Rapid Fire Protection Inc. > 1805 Samco Road > Rapid City, SD 57702 > Office-605.348.2342 > Cell-605.391.2733 > Fax:-605.348.0108 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Mike Hairfield > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 5:35 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Bottom of elevator shaft protection > > Some AHJ's classify it as Extra Hazard because of the Hydraulic Fluid, I > wouldsay ordinary hazard but never light hazard. > Mike > >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Bottom of elevator shaft protection >> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2015 11:31:30 +0000 >> >> Question, >> Would the bottom of the elevator shaft be considered light or ordinary >> hazard ? We have an elevator shaft 15-'4" wide, one head would be acceptable >> as light hazard but not as ordinary hazard. >> >> >> Stephen J. Sorrell, CET >> NICET# 77901 Level III >> E mail: >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> >> Performance Fire Protection, LLC >> Corporate Office >> 179 Gasoline Alley - PO Box 4510 >> Mooresville, NC 28117 >> Phone: 704-663-1664 Fax: 704-663-1652 Cell : 704-309-1242 >> >> Web: www.performancefire.com<http://www.performancefire.com> >> Licensed in NC, SC, VA, TN, GA, AL >> >> "Performance on Every Level." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> l >> er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
