We can just make more problems quicker with these devices, Bill.
On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Bill Brooks <[email protected]> wrote: > It's nice to know, after more than 40 years at this stuff, we still have > the > same coordination issues. I thought these problems could be fixed with > smart phones and snapchatting. > > Bill Brooks > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > [email protected]] > On Behalf Of rongreenman . > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 4:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Preaction Systems Scope > > The problem of nobody bidding the detection, but everybody excluding it, > was > exactlty what happened at the C-17 Simulator building at McChord AFB. > > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 12:04 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Price is all they care about. > > > > Craig L. Prahl > > Fire Protection Group Lead/SME > > CH2MHILL > > Lockwood Greene > > 1500 International Drive > > Spartanburg, SC 29303 > > Direct - 864.599.4102 > > Fax - 864.599.8439 > > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael > > Hill > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 2:55 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Preaction Systems Scope > > > > Can you send those contractors our way. We can cloud, highlight and > > put arrows pointing to our exclusions and the general contractor still > > only sees the price at the bottom of the page. > > > > Mike Hill > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > > [email protected]] > > On Behalf Of rongreenman . > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 2:05 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Preaction Systems Scope > > > > You could have a base bid price excluding the electrics, with an "in > bold" > > extra for the inclusion electrics. That might get their attention and > > still let them compare apples to apples. I know I've done that and > > that started someone asking questions about just what the other bids > included. > > > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Rod DiBona <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Thank you all for your help. That is what I thought but we were > > > starting to wonder if we were the only ones that seem to > > > consistently have this problem. We so clearly, in bold exclude it in > > > detail and then still end up with a fight at the end because the GC > > > didn't buy it out. We were considering just including all of it in > > > all of our preaction bids so they get a complete system and > > > eliminate the hassle but felt that this would make us less > > > competitive if others weren't doing the same. We will continue to > > > exclude and see if we can't find a better way to communicate that > > > this is a likely scope gap unless it is > > addressed at bid time. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto: > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > > rongreenman . > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2016 11:03 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: Preaction Systems Scope > > > > > > Here it is typically handled like Mike describes too. Everyone > > > pretty much knows the general's contracts guy will miss all the > > > exclusion clauses unless he's been bitten before. The object is to > > > get the building built with all systems working. > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Morey, Mike <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Typically we tried to let the project team work it out, but if > > > > they didn't or there wasn't a well defined project team to resolve > > > > these issues we'd typically take it out for numbers. Usually we > > > > try and get the electrical/alarm bidders for the project to put a > number on it. > > > > > > > > Mike Morey, CFPS, SET > > > > Planner Scheduler/Designer > > > > BMWC Constructors, Inc. > > > > 1740 W. Michigan St, Indianapolis, IN 46222 > > > > O: 317.651.0596 | C: 317.586.8111 > > > > [email protected] | www.bmwc.com > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > From: Sprinklerforum > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > on behalf of Rod DiBona <[email protected]> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2016 12:25 PM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Preaction Systems Scope > > > > > > > > I am wondering how most of you handle the detection and releasing > > > > systems for your preaction systems. We traditionally have excluded > > > > all electrical and alarm but find it very common that the fire > > > > alarm contractor was just smarts and parts and the electrician > > > > doesn't have it in his scope. Not very often have the ME and EE > > > > coordinated so that > > > it is spelled out correctly. > > > > So my question is do most of you include this scope and have an > > > > electrical subcontractor that runs the conduit, provides and > > > > installs the heats or detectors and programs the releasing panel > > > > or do you exclude? Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Rod at Rapid Fire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespr > > > > in kl er.org _______________________________________________ > > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespr > > > > in > > > > kl > > > > er.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Ron Greenman > > > Instructor > > > Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College > > > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > > > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > > > > > 253.680.7346 > > > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > > > > > Member: > > > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > > > > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > > > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > > > > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. > > > Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > > kl > > > er.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > > kl > > > er.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ron Greenman > > Instructor > > Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College > > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > > > 253.680.7346 > > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > > > Member: > > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, > > inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > > er.org > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, > essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, > inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
