I think what is being said is that you can protect the piping and that a valve in the line doesn’t affect the protection of the pipe. Is that correct?
Other questions had arisen about using the heat tape to actually protect valves which is a different issue. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540 Fax - 864.920.7129 CH2MHILL Extension 77540 [email protected] From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: pipe heat trace [EXTERNAL] Craig, It is against the listing to take bonnets out of hanger rings too, but there is hardly a condominium in in Florida that still has bonnets in the rings. But I did my due diligence and got the answer from the manufacturer, The listing is not effected by the presence of valves. So for me, I am pleased with that. It is also not effected by by the presence of flanges. Their software that calculates the size and length of the their products ask for all pertinent information regarding valves, hangers and flanges. Just my opinion as a guy trying to walk all the lines and still make a living. Greg Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC<http://www.livingwaterfp.com> 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850 fax 850-937-1852 On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 8:27 AM, <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: But that answer doesn’t state whether or not their listing includes heat tracing of valves. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540<tel:(864)%20920-7540> Fax - 864.920.7129<tel:(864)%20920-7129> CH2MHILL Extension 77540 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:24 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: pipe heat trace [EXTERNAL] I have checked with one manufacturer concerning their listing if valves were in the line and their answer was that valving did not effect their listing. So I am comfortable with using their product. From a practical standpoint I am 100% confident that the valve will not freeze if heat traced and insulated. Greg Greg McGahan Living Water Fire Protection, LLC<http://www.livingwaterfp.com> 1160 McKenzie Road Cantonment, FL 32533 850-937-1850<tel:(850)%20937-1850> fax 850-937-1852<tel:(850)%20937-1852> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 9:41 PM, AKS-Gmail-IMAP <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: It is worthwhile to note that joint and pipe failures related to pipe freezing are not failures located at the site where freezing takes place. Contrary to conventional wisdom the failures are not from ice stressing piping material. Instead it is the overpressure in the still liquid portions of the piping caused by a decrease in space, i.e. an advancing ice plug, that causes the breaks. The water at the break can subsequently flash freeze due to pressure loss giving the impression it was, “ice that done it." A dramatic usefull example of this concept is the common method of using dry ice to freeze a line off when a shutoff valve has failed. Just make sure there is a way to relieve the overpressure. With this in mind there might be some instances where pressure relief mechanisms located in strategic locations would be a good idea. Allan Seidel St. Louis, MO On Dec 5, 2016, at 2:37 PM, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote: You can only trace valves if the product says it is listed for protecting valves in NFPA 13 systems or something similar. You can’t automatically assume you can do anything. What does the listing state, that’s where you start. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540<tel:(864)%20920-7540> Fax - 864.920.7129<tel:(864)%20920-7129> CH2MHILL Extension 77540 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 3:53 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: pipe heat trace [EXTERNAL] So I can heat trace the sectional valves since they are not specifically excluded per NFPA 13 and 14? From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 10:23 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: pipe heat trace NFPA 14 has similar requirements for the dry pipe valve but this is a sectional control valves (another term from 13 since 14 does not differentiate by name but it helps focus the discussion). Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org<http://www.firesprinkler.org/> On Nov 30, 2016, at 12:11 PM, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote: Heat trace systems for fire protection are to be Listed for their intended purpose. You need to look at the listing to see what the system’s installation limitations are. Some systems may only be used for pipe up to a certain size for example. No you cannot use heat tape on system valves. The systems are also to be electrically supervised, typically accomplished through the fire alarm system. See 2013, NFPA 13, 8.16.4.1.4 – 8.16.4.1.4.2 for more info. NFPA 13, 2013: 7.2.5.2.3 Heat tape shall not be used in lieu of heated valve enclosures to protect the dry pipe valve and supply pipe against freezing. This is under Dry Pipe Valves, there is also similar verbiage under preaction and deluge valves in 7.3.1.8.2.3 since dry, preaction or deluge would be the most likely systems used where the system could be subject to freezing. it would be assumed that a wet pipe system valve would automatically be located in a heated area. Craig L. Prahl Fire Protection Group Lead/SME CH2M 200 Verdae Blvd. Greenville, SC 29607 Direct - 864.920.7540<tel:(864)%20920-7540> Fax - 864.920.7129<tel:(864)%20920-7129> CH2MHILL Extension 77540 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 11:17 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: pipe heat trace [EXTERNAL] I need to heat trace some standpipe feed mains in a parking garage when running from the riser room to the stairwells. Is it acceptable to also heat trace the standpipe control valves? They would prefer to keep them out of the stairwells. Thanks, Dewayne _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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