I just informed them to use concealed residential sprinklers and stay with 13R. I think the main driver was that this building has the cops visiting about 3 times a week so they were looking for something tamper proof. I did inform them that institutional sprinklers are not tamper proof, just more tamper resistant than other sprinklers...and that the main purpose for institutional is so that occupants can't harm themselves (as easily). If they keep pushing the institutional route, I will just let them know what it will cost for the dry system in the attic to move to NFPA 13 and I think we will be just fine as I suggest.
Thank you everyone for the help. Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | http://www.kfiengineers.com -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 10:25 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential Sprinklers I would not get involved in such a toeing-the-line exercise. Just fire-protect the building per 13 and you don't have to dance with these restrictions. The owner's well-intended energies regarding institutional sprinklers are blurring the line between application and the intent of 13R, i.e. life-safety. SL -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 7:38 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential Sprinklers Thank you. New, but related question...the owner wants to install institutional sprinklers in the dwelling units as they are concerned with tampering and are willing to pay a premium. The institutional sprinklers (Tyco RAVEN) are QR but not residential (as far as I can tell). So, based on the reference John provided below, we could install up to four institutional (QR) sprinklers per dwelling unit and the rest would need to be residential sprinklers, correct? And, we would need to design to 0.1 gpm/sq ft. NFPA 13R, 2013 edition 6.2 Use of Sprinklers. 6.2.1 Inside Dwelling Units. 6.2.1.1 Listed residential sprinklers shall be used unless another type is permitted by 6.2.1.3 or 6.2.1.4. 6.2.1.2 Residential sprinklers shall not be used on systems other than wet pipe systems unless specifically listed for use on that particular type of system. 6.2.1.3 Listed quick-response sprinklers shall be permitted to be installed in dwelling units meeting the definition of a compartment, as defined in Section 3.3, where no more than four sprinklers are located in the dwelling unit. 6.2.1.3.1 Where quick-response sprinklers, including extended coverage quick-response sprinklers, are used, the density/area requirement shall be a minimum of 0.1 gpm/ft2 (4.1 mm/min)over the entire dwelling unit. 6.2.1.3.2 Where extended coverage quick-response sprinklers are used, the flow shall be sufficient to meet the listing of the sprinklers at the spacing for which they are being used. 6.2.1.4 Quick-response sprinklers discharging a minimum of 0.1 gpm/ft2 (4.1 mm/min) shall be permitted to be used in mechanical closets. Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire Protection Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | KFIengineers.com<http://www.kfiengineers.com> -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Paulsen Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 8:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Residential Sprinklers Reed: 6.2.1.3 13R, 2016 John Paulsen - SET Crown Fire System Design 6282 Seeds Rd. Grove City, OH 43123 P - 614-782-2438 F - 614-782-2374 C - 614-348-8206 -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fpdcdesign Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 9:14 AM To: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: Residential Sprinklers Reed, 6.7.7.1.3. (2007). Carries through in later versions (as far as I looked). I ran I. To a similar situation recently and we had to change to 13 Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080 (ofc) 860-553-3553 (fax) 860-608-4559 (cell) > > On Mar 6, 2018 at 9:08 AM, <SET Reed A. Roisum > (mailto:[email protected])> wrote: > > > > Thanks Travis. Can you please point me to where it says that? > > > Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire > Protection Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: > 701.388.1352 | http://www.kfiengineers.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > MFP Design, LLC > Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 5:08 PM > To: > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > esprinkler.org> > Subject: RE: Residential Sprinklers > > You can only have a maximum of 4 QR sprinklers per dwelling unit, not just > compartment. If you need more than 4 standard spray sprinklers, you can't > comply with 13R. > > > Travis Mack, SET > MFP Design, LLC > 3356 E Vallejo Ct > Gilbert, AZ 85298 > 480-505-9271 > fax: 866-430-6107 > email:[email protected] > > http://www.mfpdesign.com > https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692 > Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack > > "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price > is forgotten." > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > <[email protected]<mailto:sprinklerforum- > [email protected]>> > On Behalf Of Art Tiroly > Sent: Monday, March 5, 2018 4:00 PM > To: > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > esprinkler.org> > Subject: RE: Residential Sprinklers > > Using 5.6K QR heads will change the hydraulic calculations and minimum flows > allowed by residential sprinklers. > > > Art Tiroly > ATCO Fire Protection/Tiroly > 24400 Highland Rd CLE 44143 > 216-621-8899 > 216-570-7030 cell > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Reed A. Roisum, SET > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 4:47 PM > To: > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > esprinkler.org> > Subject: Residential Sprinklers > > Are residential sprinklers required for dwelling units in NFPA 13R? It > appears as though they can be QR or residential in the 2012 IBC (903.3.2). > For some reason I had in my mind that they needed to be residential within > the dwelling unit or sleeping unit?? > > Thanks. > > Reed R. > > Reed A. Roisum, SET | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Senior Fire > Protection Designer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: > 701.388.1352 | http://www.kfiengineers.com > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > esprinkler.org> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > esprinkler.org> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > esprinkler.org> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > esprinkler.org> > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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