I’m not going to shoot holes in it. I like it. It makes sense.
Nick Maneen, SET c 704.791.7789 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery Sent: Monday, April 16, 2018 10:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mech room sans ceiling & full height walls Are we SURE that 8.15.23.3 isn’t intended to be used in these situations? I know it says “on only one side”, but I think we might be interpreting that incorrectly. It is saying that the unsprinklered space is adjacent to the sprinklered space on only one side, not the other way around. So, while the sprinklered space (the mechanical room in this case) is open to the unsprinklered space on 4 sides (assuming the room is a rectangle)… you could say there are four unsprinklered spaces (north, south, east, and west) that are each open to the sprinklered space on only one side. In reality, it’s more like one giant unsprinklered space with a hole in the middle. I would say that this scenario doesn’t match up very well with the wording of the code, or the figure, but that is more due to the literary difficulty of explaining this scenario. However, I would think that if you carried sprinkler protection the appropriate distance (half the remote area) out from all sides around the room then that meets the INTENT of this section pretty well. I mean, you would end up with a little more than a full remote area of sprinkler heads above the ceiling, centered around the area we would expect the fire to originate, so how is that not adequate protection. Now someone shoot some holes in my theory. -Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben Young Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2018 9:16 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mech room sans ceiling & full height walls I have to constantly remind the estimators that 8.15.23.3 only works if it's open on one side. Every time this had come up after we are awarded the project we've managed to convince the GC or owner to add a ceiling in these small rooms. On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 6:49 PM John Irwin <[email protected]> wrote: I've seen this. Never had too much trouble getting a ceiling added when I give them the add alternate for installing sprinklers at the roof. Checking wall heights is usually one of the first things I do when opening a fresh set of plans. Half a dozen different color highlighters and a cup of coffee... John Irwin DynaFire Inc. Tampa Fire Sprinkler Division 727-282-9243 This email was sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, typographical errors, and grammatical gaffes. On Apr 13, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Ed Kramer <[email protected]> wrote: This is something we’re seeing occasionally and I’m wondering if others are seeing it also. A typical office area within a noncombustible building. All rooms within the greater area have lowered finished ceilings, are mostly light hazard, and the space above is noncombustible and (almost) concealed. A small mechanical room (or 2 or 3) is located among the various offices. This mech room is less than 130 sf, so the floor area can be protected with 1 sprinkler. However, the A/E has decided this room doesn’t need a ceiling and the perimeter walls can stop 6” above the ceiling height of the adjacent rooms. This makes the space above the surrounding offices noncombustible but not truly concealed. See below. NFPA 13 (2013) tells me I have to sprinkler the entire noncombustible space above the offices. 8.15.23.3 doesn’t apply since it’s open on all 4 sides. We’re working with GC to convince them to add a ceiling or to extend the walls up to the roof deck. It’s just way too easy to overlook this kind of seemingly minor detail when bidding, and difficult to get a change order (or walls/ceilings added) after the contract’s signed. So, just wondering if anybody else is seeing this issue. Ed Kramer Bamford Fire Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=OE-aEPuhj6Eb3TwCoW4fupeytmnYcCYnaTwhmnc_d5s&s=6JTg8ahBbnEizCbtj3TaOFbG34uXISqSg0_e1iBvl8M&e=> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.firesprinkler.org_listinfo.cgi_sprinklerforum-2Dfiresprinkler.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=wn3mZQLIuInh2ClcJ0_DIA&r=Z_2A85VL7AQzoqudh6uOyS3bn8etxB7nLN8OBJwQd9A&m=OE-aEPuhj6Eb3TwCoW4fupeytmnYcCYnaTwhmnc_d5s&s=6JTg8ahBbnEizCbtj3TaOFbG34uXISqSg0_e1iBvl8M&e=> -- Benjamin Young
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