My understanding is the pump would need to be sized to provide the demand for the greater of the two, not the combination. I don't think you should equate 'outside hose stations' with 'hydrant fire flow' requirements. You do have to size the pump for the combination of the sprinkler demand and the hose allowance, but not the fire flow.
Reed A. Roisum, SET | KFI Engineers | Fire Protection Project Manager | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9903 | mobile: 701.388.1352 | KFIengineers.com <www.kfiengineers.com> -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg Fontes via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 9:47 AM To: Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]>; [email protected] Cc: Gregg Fontes <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Fire Pump Sprk & Fire Flow Demand Yes. But our is CFC Section 507. What I am trying to understand is NFPA 13 2016 Edition 11.1.5.3 & A.11.1.5.3 "Where pumps serve some combination of sprinklers, inside hose stations or outside hose stations, the pump needs to be capable of providing the flow of the equipment that is fed from the pump." The fire pump would be size for the fire sprinkler and any NFPA 13 inside and/or outside hose demands, but does it also have to be size for the 2000 gpm fire flow demand since 11.1.5.3 & A.11.1.5.3 states pump needs to be capable of providing flow that is fed from the pump? Thanks, Gregg Fontes Cen-Cal Fire Systems, Inc. 209-334-9119 -----Original Message----- From: Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:09 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Gregg Fontes <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Fire Pump Sprk & Fire Flow Demand Are site Fire Flow requirements (IFC Section 507) what you're referring to as "hydrant demand"? At minimum, the pump should be capable of flowing the sprinkler and related hose stream allowance flow rate combined. BUT, when there have been no municipal hydrants to be used for the actual firefighting effort, we've had to be capable of providing the Fire Flow rate to area hydrants plus sprinkler demand via the site fire pump. I've also had AHJs say to only provide the sprinkler flow plus the hose stream allowance via the site pump. So it really depends on the AHJ as the Fire Flow requirement is stated in the code as being "by an approved method" i.e., per the AHJ. Have you discussed this with the local fire code official yet? Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME - Fire Protection | [email protected] | www.jacobs.com 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 CONTACT BY: email or MS TEAMS -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Gregg Fontes via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 9:57 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Gregg Fontes <[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Fire Pump Sprk & Fire Flow Demand If a fire pump supplies both the fire sprinkler system and the site fire hydrants, does the fire pump gpm need to be capable of suppling both? (Fire sprinkler demand 900 gpm and site fire hydrant demand 2000 gpm for a total of 2,900. Can the fire pump be size at 750 for the fire sprinkler/hose demand or does it have to be a 2000 gpm so it can supply both the sprinkler and site fire hydrant flows of 2900 gpm?) The supply is city water and there is a bypass on the fire pump. The city supply comes into the fire pump house and goes out to single loop that supplies both the fire sprinkler systems and the site fire hydrants. (The city flow and psi is adequate to meet the site fire flow at 20-psi.) Thanks, Gregg Fontes _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!XLuydu_C5h5U5xoYfFkjhto75Yz1NndsYBhU_-ghPrj9wf496LJOQnnfdGty1B3DAw$ ________________________________ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
