Consider that if the building was not there and you could meet the required CFC fireflow for the site you'd be done, just as you would for any land development project, municipal or private. No pump necessary. Then you reference 13 as the place with the sticky wicket paragraph about everything after the pump. Remember that 13 addresses sprinkler systems and associated hose allowances and if your site system could handle both of those without a pump you'd also be done. Since you apparently need a pump to meet 13 requirements I'd say your pump needs to be sized for the sprinkler and associated hose stream allowance from 13 only. But then who the hell am I? As Craig said, check with the approving authority. And as a bit of learned advice, didn't ask for a solution but rather give that person your read of the rules and how you got there, and then ask if that's how they see it. Your job is to come up with the solution and theirs is to yay or nay it.
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 8:40 AM Steve Leyton via Sprinklerforum < [email protected]> wrote: > You do not have to prove building system demand and site fire flow > concurrently. Hard stop. > > > > Steve Leyton > > (Sent from my smartphone; please excuse typos and voice-to-text > corruptions.) > > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Gregg Fontes via Sprinklerforum < > [email protected]> > Date: 4/21/21 7:47 AM (GMT-08:00) > To: "Prahl, Craig/GVL" <[email protected]>, > [email protected] > Cc: Gregg Fontes <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: Fire Pump Sprk & Fire Flow Demand > > Yes. But our is CFC Section 507. What I am trying to understand is NFPA > 13 2016 Edition 11.1.5.3 & A.11.1.5.3 "Where pumps serve some combination > of sprinklers, inside hose stations or outside hose stations, the pump > needs to be capable of providing the flow of the equipment that is fed from > the pump." The fire pump would be size for the fire sprinkler and any NFPA > 13 inside and/or outside hose demands, but does it also have to be size for > the 2000 gpm fire flow demand since 11.1.5.3 & A.11.1.5.3 states pump needs > to be capable of providing flow that is fed from the pump? > > Thanks, > Gregg Fontes > Cen-Cal Fire Systems, Inc. > 209-334-9119 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:09 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Gregg Fontes <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: Fire Pump Sprk & Fire Flow Demand > > Are site Fire Flow requirements (IFC Section 507) what you're referring to > as "hydrant demand"? > > At minimum, the pump should be capable of flowing the sprinkler and > related hose stream allowance flow rate combined. > > BUT, when there have been no municipal hydrants to be used for the actual > firefighting effort, we've had to be capable of providing the Fire Flow > rate to area hydrants plus sprinkler demand via the site fire pump. > > I've also had AHJs say to only provide the sprinkler flow plus the hose > stream allowance via the site pump. So it really depends on the AHJ as the > Fire Flow requirement is stated in the code as being "by an approved > method" i.e., per the AHJ. > > Have you discussed this with the local fire code official yet? > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME - Fire Protection | > [email protected] | www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com> > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > CONTACT BY: email or MS TEAMS > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of Gregg Fontes via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 9:57 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Gregg Fontes <[email protected]> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Fire Pump Sprk & Fire Flow Demand > > If a fire pump supplies both the fire sprinkler system and the site fire > hydrants, does the fire pump gpm need to be capable of suppling both? > (Fire sprinkler demand 900 gpm and site fire hydrant demand 2000 gpm for a > total of 2,900. Can the fire pump be size at 750 for the fire > sprinkler/hose demand or does it have to be a 2000 gpm so it can supply > both the sprinkler and site fire hydrant flows of 2900 gpm?) The supply is > city water and there is a bypass on the fire pump. The city supply comes > into the fire pump house and goes out to single loop that supplies both the > fire sprinkler systems and the site fire hydrants. (The city flow and psi > is adequate to meet the site fire flow at 20-psi.) > > Thanks, > Gregg Fontes > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!XLuydu_C5h5U5xoYfFkjhto75Yz1NndsYBhU_-ghPrj9wf496LJOQnnfdGty1B3DAw$ > > ________________________________ > > NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged > information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any > viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by > unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message > and deleting it from your computer. > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
