My 2 cents based on 16 years trying to get better modeling sprinkler activation times is that it is dependent on:
1. Ceiling height 2. Fire Growth Rate 3. Spacing 4. RTI 5. Temperature Rating (pretty much in that order for the most part) “Could the heads not meet the response time due to being spaced farther apart?” There is likely pass/fail criteria based on activation time, and at 14x14 it passed but at 16x16 it failed, based on item 3). “Might be plausible, but if that’s the case why would it change depending on the hazard?” My guess is due to item 2) – Different hazard classifications have different Heat Release Rates. Its interesting to hold 1), 2), and 3) constant and ask… Q: which activates sooner, a 155F S.R. or a 200F Q.R.? A: it’s a tie!! Brad From: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 1:52 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Re: Adding sprinklers to system with mixed SR/QR listing I’m inclined to side with Travis on this one, but both points are valid and it probably comes down to the AHJ’s discretion/interpretation. It would be interesting to hear from Tyco (or someone privy to that info) about why the SR listing for the heads under those conditions (ordinary hazard and over a certain spacing). Could the heads not meet the response time due to being spaced farther apart? Might be plausible, but if that’s the case why would it change depending on the hazard? Or, did were they specifically listed as SR in those instances to make sure the QR reduction couldn’t be applied? This seems more likely to me, although I’m totally speculating. If that’s the case, then it would make sense to utilize QR heads in the vicinity, but to not apply the QR reduction to any calcs. Or maybe the SR listing is for some other really cool reason that I haven’t even thought of. -Kyle M From: Matthew J Willis <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 11:39 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Re: Adding sprinklers to system with mixed SR/QR listing Then your answer is SR. You indicated below they EC-11’s were installed as SR. SR is permitted in OH II. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP Design Manager Rapid Fire Protection, Inc. 600 E. Carlson St. Suite AB | Cheyenne, WY. 82009 Office (307) 426-4077 ext. 404 Direct (307) 316-6630 Cell (605) 391-2733 [cid:[email protected]] From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:35 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Adding sprinklers to system with mixed SR/QR listing This is a retail space. We have new sprinklers inside a soffit area and below part of the soffit. It does not qualify as a compartment because the openings are greater than 8 ft (about 30 ft). If a fire occurred inside the soffit area, heat would be contained to that area. However, if a fire occurred under the soffit, there could be sufficient heat each side to open sprinklers. Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080<tel:860-535-2080> (ofc) 860-554-7054<tel:860-554-7054> (fax) 860-608-4559<tel:860-608-4559> (cell) On Sep 27, 2022 at 1:59 PM, <Matthew J Willis<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Todd, What are you protecting? The wording for extending one hazard into another is a sufficient heat barrier. You may be chasing rabbits. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP Design Manager Rapid Fire Protection, Inc. 600 E. Carlson St. Suite AB | Cheyenne, WY. 82009 Office (307) 426-4077 ext. 404 Direct (307) 316-6630 Cell (605) 391-2733 [cid:[email protected]] From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 11:04 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Adding sprinklers to system with mixed SR/QR listing Compartment does not apply here. The conclusion I and coming to is that we need to closely match the RTI of the new sprinklers to the RTI of the EC sprinkler, regardless of how the latter is listed. On Sep 27, 2022 at 8:15 AM, <Sean Conlin<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: If the EC sprinkler used is listed as QR in its current application, then the new area of work has to use QR unless the area of work is located in a separate compartment. Check the definition of compartment to see if the soffit you mention can work for you. Regards, Sean W Conlin Demand Sprinkler Design Inc. 37 Summerfield Crescent Brampton, ON L6X 4K4 P: 905 216-0922 On Sep 26, 2022, at 12:42 PM, Fpdcdesign <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I am working on to an addition to an existing system that has Tyco EC-11 pendent sprinklers. According to the data sheet, these sprinklers may be QR in some circumstances and SR in others. The addition I am working on will be using standard coverage sprinklers. The space is open to the area with the EC-11 sprinklers but separated by a deep soffit. The design of the EC-11 is such that they are considered standard response by the listing. The obvious question is QR or SR for the new sprinklers? I am assuming QR because that is closer to the response time of the EC-11s despite the SR listing, but I am being questioned on this. Thoughts? Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-535-2080<tel:860-535-2080> (ofc) 860-554-7054<tel:860-554-7054> (fax) 860-608-4559<tel:860-608-4559> (cell) _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!Ba8_KKAT!Kk7PItwXEMdoJgTbmv4Dyoj9StX20K-f0hPPc08-J0BKn7hj_SgnSAueakyjy_M5ofExi9gG2g4PcfemNJSokw$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!Ba8_KKAT!Kk7PItwXEMdoJgTbmv4Dyoj9StX20K-f0hPPc08-J0BKn7hj_SgnSAueakyjy_M5ofExi9gG2g4PcfemNJSokw$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!Ba8_KKAT!Kk7PItwXEMdoJgTbmv4Dyoj9StX20K-f0hPPc08-J0BKn7hj_SgnSAueakyjy_M5ofExi9gG2g4PcfemNJSokw$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
_________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
