Scot: Love the power of your intellect and you remain one of, if not the most curious adult I’ve ever met. But…
Your lucid observations and clearly stated concerns regarding efficacy and reliability of chem/gas agent systems are tempered (if not obfuscated) by the social commentary, and this is not the venue for discussion of class separation, social status or the dissection of gestalt societal mores, unless they pertain to fire and life safety. Nobody loves a good “stick it to the man” conversation more than me, but those usually involve alcohol and a setting sun… Steve From: å... .... <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2023 12:10 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] pipes Hydrostatic test in NFPA 2001: Clean Agents vs Dirty Agents: Risk Tolerance I too worked on projects where the client and EoR called for 'dirty agent' (aka clean agent) systems. What did the client get with their decision? Systems egregiously more expensive, that didn't work and which released toxic gases. It took more effort than it should have to prove: 1). the contract would require $60 million for 'dirty agent' systems... when $6 million would have covered the cost of extending sprinkler piping in from the corridors and the costs of these gas-suppression systems... have not included the refills and ITM... which if done diligently, will exceed install costs in a matter of years 2). roughly 67% of these systems are unable to extinguish their design fire 7 years after commissioning (thus the argument that 'dirty agents' provide SUPERIOR protection of electrical components is misleading, at best... I am waiting 22 years for someone to report to me the when, where, how much regarding sprinkler damage to an electronic equipment room... Most technicians don't know how to synchronize the detection, ventilation-stop, door-closing, barrier-integrity, evacuation alarm and agent release interfaces, not because they are dumb technicians, but because dumb engineers don't provide instructions [let alone good instructions] on these often forgotten interfaces) 3). NFPA 2001 declares as toxic, many of these fluorinated fire suppressants...which is a misdirection because water too is 'toxic in excess'. FM-200 and NOVEC's real toxicity is not from breathing them in a confined space (though NFPA diligently cites it as such). Their practical 'toxicity' is high global warming potentials and sustainability damage from production, storage, transportation, refill... "There is nothing so useless as doing something well, that need not be done at all." P. Drucker But from my reading of performance from gas fire-suppression systems over last 37-years, I can not even say that these systems are done well... In the end, the owners and EoR for the above project decided to 'stay the course' and spend the $600 million. They chose to preserve their social status by avoiding a change-of-mind; they chose to euphemistically 'distribute the money into the economy...' A sign of intelligence is willingness to change. True ignorance is not a lack of knowledge, it is inability to change. The client is not always right. This is the challenge of AGI, even if AGI points humans to what is the most energy efficient, materially sound decision, humans bound by loyalties (i.e. to bosses, social status, jingoism, money) will corrupt AI's efficient decisions to their personal ends... What is more important: individuals or society? the answer is: all safety tolerance is dynamic, fluid. The continual reevaluation (& changing of one's mind) as to what that tolerance should be is a better use of our time than drugs, bar-b-ques or video games. Scot Deal Excelsior Fire & Risk Engineering gms: +420 606 872 129
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