Just wondering, how close are you guys from the final release of 2.2? Best
On Monday, April 29, 2013 1:08:44 PM UTC-4, Carlos Córdoba wrote: > > Pierre, I think the change you suggest will introduce a bit more > complexity and confusion, because it will add another button/action that > this almost as "Run" but not exactly it. > > I know it's very annoying and troublesome for old time users to change a > behavior that has been there since at least version 2.0, but at any time > they could click the checkbox I added to the dialog and have it back. We > could even select "External interpreter" as the default radio when the user > clicks that checkbox. > > This is kind of what happens when Firefox changes an old behavior for a > new one: people complain but then adapt. It's really hard to please > everyone, but it's also not good to maintain old habits when they are not > easy to grasp or intuitive. > > I think this is a good chance to improve on a decision that was taken a > long time ago. > > Cheers, > Carlos > > El 29/04/13 11:41, Pierre Raybaut escribió: > > @Sylvain: I've just changed the warning message > > @Uwe: the best behavior would be to wait until the IPython client is > ready but it would require some coding (let's continue this in v2.3) > > @Steve: I agree that it's a bit late to introduce this kind of behavior > change. > > @All: > > I've just had an idea of how we could settle this matter for both > beginners and advanced users. > We could: > 1. reintroduce the old "Run in current (Python/IPython )console" action > (Alt+F5, for example) as an additional action in "Run" menu/toolbar. > 2. the current "Run" action (F5) will remain unchanged (with the old > default behavior, i.e. "run in a dedicated interpreter" enabled but with > "always show on a first rerun" disabled) > > So, Carlos, Uwe, you may suggest to your students to use Alt+F5 instead > of F5: > a. Use F5 to run a script in a clean/dedicated Python interpreter: this is > recommended for developing applications > b. Use Alt+F5 to run a script in current Python interpreter: this is > recommended for interactive computing > > => No unpleasant/unexpected change for current (or advanced) users. > => Easier for beginners who would probably use Alt+F5 more often than F5 > > What do you think about this suggestion? > > 2013/4/29 Steve <[email protected] <javascript:>> > >> Does it make sense for spyder to just complain about no open interpreter >> (and not just go ahead and launch a new one)? Does the ipython interpreter >> never close? I'm not seeing how this change makes anything easier for new >> users beyond the initial run unless you're assuming all new users use >> ipython and those interpreter sessions never close. Otherwise they're >> going to be met with the dialog complaining that no interpreter is open and >> they're going to have to learn about these concepts anyways. >> >> I understand the desire to help new users, but sneaking a software >> behavior change into an RC just before release is a good way to introduce >> breakage and confusion for current users. >> >> >> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 5:19:17 PM UTC-5, Sylvain Corlay wrote: >>> >>> Hi Pierre, >>> I think that the current error message is a bit misleading in the case >>> where there is a shell opened but it does not have the focus. For example, >>> if there is an ipython console opened but the standard console widget is >>> selected. >>> Something in this spirit of >>> "No Python shell is currently selected to run stuff.py, please select >>> or open a new python interpreter." >>> woud maybe be more clear. >>> Best, >>> Sylvain >>> >>> On Sunday, April 28, 2013 11:23:51 AM UTC-4, Pierre Raybaut wrote: >>>> >>>> Ok, I understand your point of view and I think that it's probably >>>> best to keep it that way for beginners. >>>> >>>> This odd behavior I found out ("Re-run" a script in current >>>> interpreter fails silently if there is no running interpreter) is actually >>>> a bug which is not produced by your recent change: this recent change of >>>> behavior is only making it happen more easily. So, no worry, really. >>>> >>>> I see two actions that would need to be taken care of to close this >>>> issue: >>>> 1. Warn the user (with a warning pop-up dialog box) if the current "Run >>>> settings" is set to "Run in current interpreter" *and* if there is no >>>> interpreter currently running. This will avoid the "Run" command to fail >>>> silently. >>>> 2. Show the "Run settings" the first time a script is ever run, so that >>>> every one will be fully conscious of the new default behavior (run in >>>> current interpreter) and the new "show Run Settings at each run" check >>>> box. >>>> Beginners will directly click on the "Run" button without changing >>>> anything >>>> and the dialog won't show again so that they won't be troubled by this >>>> mysterious choice again. >>>> >>>> I've implemented point 1 here: >>>> >>>> https://code.google.com/p/spyderlib/source/detail?r=c1e17dc89477f27cd251fb59340a067eaa45b9f8 >>>> and point 2 there: >>>> >>>> https://code.google.com/p/spyderlib/source/detail?r=00e148391c5b454b8c144fd1553b0a2155be8e12 >>>> >>>> With those minor changes above, I'm ok with this new behavior! >>>> >>>> -Pierre >>>> >>>> >>>> 2013/4/28 Carlos Córdoba <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> Hi Pierre, >>>>> >>>>> Good to hear from you again! I gave a lot of thought to this change, >>>>> and I didn't want to do it so close to the final release, but I was busy >>>>> fixing other complex bugs. >>>>> >>>>> From the source code point of view, things are almost exactly as >>>>> before: I just changed the dialog's default to "current interpreter" and >>>>> added a checkbox to let the user decide between the old and the new >>>>> behavior, so the bug you mention was most probably there before. >>>>> >>>>> Experienced or old time users can mark the mentioned checkbox and >>>>> things for them will be as they always have been. But newbies (as Uwe >>>>> mentions) will have a much easier and pleasant time with Spyder without >>>>> being confronted with a complex set of options from the start. >>>>> >>>>> I hope you understand my motivation: my aim is to lead Spyder to a >>>>> wider audience, i.e. people who is learning or giving their first steps >>>>> with Python, but maintaining all the configurability and adaptability it >>>>> currently has. >>>>> >>>>> I'll work hard to solve any bugs that show up (starting with yours :-) >>>>> and time will tell if I took the right decision or not. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Carlos >>>>> >>>>> El 28/04/13 07:58, Pierre Raybaut escribió: >>>>> >>>>> Carlos, >>>>> >>>>> I'm quite busy these days and I've just played around with latest >>>>> Spyder revision, just to fix Issue 1363 (for which you asked for my >>>>> help). >>>>> Doing so, I've been confronted to this new behavior of the 'Run >>>>> configuration' dialog which has been renamed to 'Run settings' (why not). >>>>> First, I find it very risky to introduce a change of behavior of this >>>>> magnitude at this stage of 2.2 release process (Release Candidate). >>>>> Second, >>>>> I was confronted in less than 5 minutes to a bug (an unexpected behavior >>>>> actually) related to this change: when executing a program which kills >>>>> the >>>>> Python process (hard crash or a simple call to sys.exit), Spyder seems to >>>>> be unresponsive and unable to re-run it as the current interpreter has >>>>> been >>>>> terminated... So, that's how I've discovered this new behavior, a quite >>>>> unpleasant experience. >>>>> I really think that such changes should have been introduced at an >>>>> early stage of development, not just before releasing the final 2.2. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Pierre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2013/4/27 Carlos Córdoba <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>>> I made the change so that after pressing F5 on new files, they always >>>>>> be evaluated in the current interpreter (Python or IPython). I just >>>>>> checked >>>>>> that it's working as I designed it (on Windows and Linux), i.e. If you >>>>>> press F5 again, then the file will be ran again in the selected console >>>>>> with the "runfile" function. >>>>>> >>>>>> I did it because I saw (in my courses and workshops) that people gets >>>>>> easily confused with the "Run dialog" and don't know what option to >>>>>> select. >>>>>> Besides, now that we have a very good IPython integration, I expect most >>>>>> people will take advantage of it and won't need the "Execute in a new >>>>>> dedicated python interpreter" option. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, if you want to get back the old behavior, you can mark the >>>>>> checkbox at the end of the dialog that reads: >>>>>> >>>>>> "Always open this dialog on a first file run". >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Carlos >>>>>> >>>>>> El 26/04/13 17:04, Steve escribió: >>>>>> >>>>>> I saw some commits in the change log recently related to the Run >>>>>>> Settings. One of the changes leads to unexpected behavior. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It appears the default interpreter option changed. I just rolled >>>>>>> back to an old commit to confirm. The radio button for "Execute in a >>>>>>> new >>>>>>> dedicated python interpreter" used to be selected by default. The new >>>>>>> default is "Execute in current Python or IPython interpreter" is >>>>>>> checked. >>>>>>> Because of this new default setting after the initial run (F5) >>>>>>> additional >>>>>>> presses of F5 do nothing. I finally figured this out by realizing it >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> new files and it must have to do with the run config for new files >>>>>>> versus >>>>>>> files I had previously debugged. I think don't think new behavior is >>>>>>> optimal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Steve >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "spyder" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/spyderlib?hl=en. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "spyder" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/spyderlib?hl=en. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "spyder" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/spyderlib?hl=en. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "spyder" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/spyderlib?hl=en. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "spyder" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/spyderlib?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "spyder" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<javascript:> > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/spyderlib?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "spyder" group. 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