Yes I am reviewing all of the messages about this proposal before
publishing it as a XEP.

On 8/26/11 6:57 AM, Jehan Pagès wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I wrote 2 unanswered emails about this XEP proposal, one about the
> fact the quickstart can be improved, hence skipping one step and also
> sending a lot less unecessary data (basically all the <features/>) in
> "quickstart mode" as we could consider the initiating entity already
> "registered" its authentication "path" during a previous connection;
> and one about stream resumption, which I think is slightly
> contradictory to XEP-0198.
> 
> So as I think they may have been "lost" amongst the many emails on the
> list, I allow myself to up this. :-)
> Thanks.
> 
> Jehan
> 
> 2011/8/13 Jehan Pagès <[email protected]>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Waqas Hussain <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 2:28 AM, XMPP Extensions Editor <[email protected]> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> The XMPP Extensions Editor has received a proposal for a new XEP.
>>>>
>>>> Title: XMPP Quickstart
>>>>
>>>> Abstract: This document defines methods for speeding the process of 
>>>> connecting or reconnecting to an XMPP.
>>>>
>>>> URL: http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/quickstart.html
>>>>
>>
>> I find this XEP very interesting. I would typically use this in
>> "simple" web implementations where I cannot keep a live client
>> connection, hence do often short connections.
>>
>>>> The XMPP Council will decide at its next meeting whether to accept this 
>>>> proposal as an official XEP.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Example 1 doesn't take things to their logical extreme.
>>>
>>> STEP 1 can be merged with the TLS ClientHello message.
>>> STEP 4 can be merged with the server's TLS Finished message.
>>> STEP 5 can be merged with the client's TLS Finished message.
>>> STEP 9 can be merged with STEP 7.
>>> If the server handles it just right, STEP 8 and 10 could be merged
>>> into one TCP packet (in response to 7+9).
>>>
>>> If you are not negotiating TLS in the middle, you can start a stream,
>>> do PLAIN or ANONYMOUS login, request roster, set presence, join a
>>> chatroom, and send messages, all in the first TCP packet. This makes
>>> legacy SSL somewhat attractive. The same can be done with BOSH, if you
>>> skip the stream restart on SASL (which virtually all existing clients
>>> do?).
>>>
>>> Moving on...
>>>
>>> Does the client even need to pay attention to the pipelining stream
>>> feature? When connecting to any server, it can first attempt to use
>>> full pipelining. If that fails, it can simply reconnect without
>>> pipelining. It can cache the failures. It would need to do this even
>>> if the server indicates it can support pipelining, as the server may
>>> be lying/buggy and e.g., might not support merging TLS negotiation and
>>> XMPP data in the same TCP packet.
>>>
>>> Looking at Example 1 closely, the client pipelined <starttls/> before
>>> looking at the stream feature, so what's the stream feature for? Is
>>> the client expected to not pipeline unless it has seen the feature in
>>> a previous connection to the host? Why? Given that the failure case is
>>> harmless, and that pipelining might work on many existing servers, why
>>> wouldn't it want to use it on first connect? Would using it violate
>>> any specification?
>>
>> Actually I think it can be very interesting to have done a "normal"
>> connection first (where you saw that pipelining feature), in order to
>> further optimize any further connections. Hence the client could
>> already know what are the features of the server, what will be the one
>> it will want to negotiate, and in which order.
>> In particular, you know there is TLS, which SASL mechanism you will
>> want to use, if there is compression, and if so, which compression
>> scheme to use, and so on. What we "earn" here is that, first of all,
>> the server would never have to send its list of features and the
>> client would thus never have to process it (even if it skips it when
>> it sees it while pipelining, that's still useless processing in the
>> "quickstart" use case).
>> For instance, in the example 1, because you have done once the whole
>> normal negotiation and you saw that the server supports pipelining,
>> you cache that next time you will "quickstart" with TLS+SASL
>> SCRAM-SHA1+bind. So the example could be like this:
>>
>> STEP 1: *same*
>> C: <stream:stream
>>     from='[email protected]'
>>     to='im.example.com'
>>     version='1.0'
>>     xml:lang='en'
>>     xmlns='jabber:client'
>>     xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams'>
>>   <starttls xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls'/>
>>
>> STEP 2: *no need to send features. That's a lot "thinner" packet!*
>> S: <proceed xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls'/>
>>
>> STEP 3: *same*
>> [client and server complete TLS negotiation over the existing TCP connection]
>>
>> STEP 4: *your example was somewhat "bad"! The initiating identity has
>> to restart the stream, not the receiving one (cf. RFC 6120), though we
>> could imagine in quickstart, it does not matter much.*
>> C: <stream:stream
>>     from='[email protected]'
>>     to='im.example.com'
>>     version='1.0'
>>     xml:lang='en'
>>     xmlns='jabber:client'
>>     xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams'>
>>   <auth xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl"
>>         mechanism="SCRAM-SHA-1">
>> biwsbj1qdWxpZXQscj1vTXNUQUF3QUFBQU1BQUFBTlAwVEFBQUFBQUJQVTBBQQ==
>>   </auth>
>>
>> STEP 5: *server restarts as well and directly responds the SASL auth,
>> no features!*
>> S: <stream:stream
>>     from='im.example.com'
>>     id='vgKi/bkYME8OAj4rlXMkpucAqe4='
>>     to='[email protected]'
>>     version='1.0'
>>     xml:lang='en'
>>     xmlns='jabber:client'
>>     xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams'>
>> <challenge xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl">
>>     cj1vTXNUQUF3QUFBQU1BQUFBTlAwVEFBQUFBQUJQVTBBQWUxMjQ2OTViLTY5Y
>>     TktNGRlNi05YzMwLWI1MWIzODA4YzU5ZSxzPU5qaGtZVE0wTURndE5HWTBaaT
>>     AwTmpkbUxUa3hNbVV0TkRsbU5UTm1ORE5rTURNeixpPTQwOTY=
>>   </challenge>
>>
>> STEP 6:
>> C: <response xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl">
>>     Yz1iaXdzLHI9b01zVEFBd0FBQUFNQUFBQU5QMFRBQUFBQUFCUFUwQUFlMTI0N
>>     jk1Yi02OWE5LTRkZTYtOWMzMC1iNTFiMzgwOGM1OWUscD1VQTU3dE0vU3ZwQV
>>     RCa0gyRlhzMFdEWHZKWXc9
>>   </response>
>>
>> STEP 7: *ok here the server could restart the stream because it knows
>> first the success of the negotiation (but it does not change much. It
>> could restart its side at step 9). Still no features sent!*
>> S: <success xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl'>
>>     dj1wTk5ERlZFUXh1WHhDb1NFaVc4R0VaKzFSU289
>>   </success>
>>   <stream:stream
>>     from='im.example.com'
>>     id='gPybzaOzBmaADgxKXu9UClbprp0='
>>     to='[email protected]'
>>     version='1.0'
>>     xml:lang='en'
>>     xmlns='jabber:client'
>>     xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams'>
>>
>> STEP 8:
>> C: <stream:stream
>>     from='[email protected]'
>>     to='im.example.com'
>>     version='1.0'
>>     xml:lang='en'
>>     xmlns='jabber:client'
>>     xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams'>
>>   <iq id='yhc13a95' type='set'>
>>     <bind xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-bind'>
>>       <resource>balcony</resource>
>>     </bind>
>>   </iq>
>>
>> STEP 9:
>> S: <iq id='yhc13a95' type='result'>
>>     <bind xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-bind'>
>>       <jid>
>>         [email protected]/balcony
>>       </jid>
>>     </bind>
>>   </iq>
>>
>> So here we have 1 step less and in particular, the server never sends
>> any features, which spare some useless data processing on both side.
>>
>> NOTE: actually if the client is *sure* the authentication will work,
>> it can merge steps 6 and 8. As a consequence, the server can merge 7
>> and 9, saving, in all, 2 additional round trips! The whole process
>> would be only 7 roundtrips. Of course the downside of this is that a
>> failed authentication cannot be saved (as you already sent "wrongly"
>> the restarted stream headers, which would hence make a stream error,
>> and a stream must re-negotiated from the start). I would say that
>> could be 2 cases:
>> 1/ if the client is user-driven, then you might want to do the 9-steps
>> process. Indeed in case of auth-error, you might want to pop-up the
>> user and ask him to type again its password to retry authentication
>> without having to redo the whole negotiation.
>> 2/ if the client is a bot, you can just imagine that a failed
>> negotiation has no solution right now. So you do the 7-steps process
>> by assuming it will go all right.
>>
>> So I guess you provided the stream features here because RFC-6120
>> writes that the receiving entity MUST send a <features/>. But as we
>> are in a special case of quickstart stream, we could imagine new
>> characteristics, couldn't we?
>>
>> Actually I think the more logical would be to have a dedicated stream
>> attribute prefixed by the pipelining namespace. Then if the client
>> wants to pipeline, it adds this attribute to its initial stream
>> header:
>> <stream:stream
>>     from='[email protected]'
>>     to='im.example.com'
>>     version='1.0'
>>     pipe:pipeline='true'
>>     xml:lang='en'
>>     xmlns='jabber:client'
>>     xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams'
>>     xmlns:pipe='urn:xmpp:pipelining:0'>
>>
>> Then the server knows for sure it is in "pipeline" mode and does not
>> need to send any features, hence saving many roundtrips (up to 9 steps
>> in our example!) and much processing of features. In any other case,
>> the server can "guess" the client is trying to pipeline (by checking
>> how many "commands" are in the single first TCP packet), but that
>> implies first to check at the lower (TCP) level (which I don't find
>> nice here), and second it implies that 2 commands in a single TCP
>> packet are necessarily an attempt to pipeline while nothing forbids an
>> entity to have several commands in a single packet, or at the opposite
>> "break" into several packets (that's how TCP works after all). So as
>> this is in fact not necessarily true, that makes pipelining either
>> limited or unreliable. With an additional stream attribute here, we
>> make this reliable, hence we allow additional optimizations (like
>> removing all the <features/>).
>>
>> What do you think? This way, I think this would make such a feature
>> extremely more interesting.
>>
>> Jehan
>>


-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/


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