What you are describing as incubating can be experimental. But in that case
we need to bump XEPs to draft sooner to differentiate it properly. And in
that case I don't think council should get involved in accepting XEPs as
experimental at all.
In any case 'experimental' should not be a mix of XEPs that can't actually
be implemented (PAM, JET) and XEPs that are working good enough and are
actually widely implemented (like MAM)

On Sep 1, 2017 10:55, "Florian Schmaus" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I don't think that this is necessarily always true. And I always find it
> strange to find unimplementable XEPs in experimental (IIRC PAM and FMUC
> where or are still examples).
>
> That's why I've been advocating for a long time a new state before
> experimental for ProtoXEPs I call 'incubating'. Just like other XEPs, IPR
> for them is already handled and they get a canonical URL where a rendered
> version of their latest state is available. But unlike (experimental) XEPs,
> breaking changes would not require a namespace bump, they don't have a
> number assigned and no registry entries are added.
>
> - Florian
>
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2017 16:53, "Peter Saint-Andre" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/31/17 7:49 AM, Guus der Kinderen wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On 31 August 2017 at 15:37, Peter Saint-Andre <[email protected]
>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> >
>> >     On 8/31/17 1:59 AM, Dave Cridland wrote:
>> >     > On 30 August 2017 at 21:32, Daniel Gultsch <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> >     >> 2017-08-30 22:10 GMT+02:00 Paul Schaub <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>:
>> >     >>> First things first: My intention for submitting JET to the XSF
>> inbox was
>> >     >>> to get some comments and first feedback in order to discover
>> caveats and
>> >     >>> pitfalls in the protocol.
>> >     >>> By no means I'd consider JET ready to be implemented or
>> accepted :D
>> >     >>
>> >     >> OK. Fair enough. I think what people usually do at this stage is
>> >     >> render the XEP themselves, put it up somewhere and show it
>> around to
>> >     >> get some feedback. That way you don't trigger council action and
>> it is
>> >     >> way easier to make changes because you don't have to go through
>> the
>> >     >> editor.
>> >     >>
>> >     >
>> >     > This is getting a bit meta, but the reason I really dislike that
>> is
>> >     > that you're asking people to work on protocol stuff outside the
>> IPR
>> >     > policy of the XSF. This exposes people implementing, or
>> discussing, to
>> >     > all sorts of legal shenanigans that are somewhat mitigated by the
>> >     > copyright assignment in submission.
>> >     >
>> >     > If there's something preventing this, we really need to fix it.
>> >
>> >     There is: the Council blocking publication of XEPs. Publish the
>> thing,
>> >     get it into XSF processes, and work on the spec in the right way.
>> Ship
>> >     and iterate!
>> >
>> > Which has been improved upon greatly in the past few weeks! I'm hoping
>> > that we can keep that up, and improve where needed.
>>
>> I realize people voiced a concern with not being able to develop to the
>> spec right away. That's why it's 0.1. Coders aren't stupid, they realize
>> that 0.1 means it's early days. If they run into ambiguities, they'll
>> provide feedback on the list.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
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