Dear Tom and all,
Tom's message (below) raises two questions (each gets a separate
Subject line).
1. Testing for toxins in the emissions from the burning of whole
Jatropha seeds is a valid topic. By far, most testing of Jatropha
burning is of the OIL and not of the whole seeds. And therefore even
the combustion devices are not the same. One answer does resolve the
entire question.
2. TOXINS are NOT measured in the PEMS or other equipment available
to stovers. Toxins-testing needs specialized equipment. Who has it
and who will make it available or who will pay for such testing? Some
universities could have such equipment. Our best hope is at the major
centers that study Jatropha, but thus far they are researching the
J-oil and not the J-seed, and certainly not in TLUD gasifiers.
3. Even with the equipment, the right situations need to be tested.
4. First, they need Jatropha seeds (available, but not easy to get.
If you need some, contact me about possible sources.)
5. Second, there are different ways and differnt devices that could
burn the whole seeds, and testing needs to match the conditions of how
the seeds would actually be combusted. A smouldering pile of J-seeds
does NOT have the same emissions (CO, PM, and now "toxins") as a
properly functioning TLUD-FA gasifier. I specifically said FA (Forced
Air) because we have such devices ready for testing, but we do not yet
(close, but not quite) for TLUD-ND (natural draft).
6. Jatropha seeds as fuel are only the tip of the iceberg. The
bigger topic is "oil-rich biomass." (We will AVOID the food vs. fuel
debate by only dealing with true waste biomass that does not feed
humans or animals.) One example is cashew shells, which have highly
caustic oils and probably toxins.
7. I hope that this message gets passed on into other Listservs or
directly to places which could actually conduct (or facilitate with
payment) the testing of whole Jatropha seeds in TLUD gasifiers. On
this topic, I am here to help (because this is certainly a
TLUD-related topic), but it is far beyond my capabilities to
accomplish the needed testing.
8. I will bring this topic to the attention of each of the BEF Stove
Camps that will occur in areas with Jatropha production.
Opinion: J-seed stoves are in their infancy. The J-seed TLUDs are
not into households yet, so A) there is no need to slow down the
development of the stoves while waiting for test results, and B) it is
a great time to get the testing started before dissemination gets
started into households.
--
Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: [email protected]
Quoting Tom Miles <[email protected]>:
Crispin,
Good thoughts. The Jatropha discussion was "toxic" in that it stimulated
quite a lively debate. We probably got more heat from the discussion than
from the stove on a cold and slightly windy day. No pot. It clearly needs
some careful testing. Good project for Winter stove camp (this week?)
I didn't bring either of my testers. Unfortunately my TSI is in repair
(after burning it up testing a gasifier) and my Testo is in use at a steam
boiler. Stovers don't seem to carry them. I would have liked to have tested
the two Aprovecho charcoal stoves that were demonstrated.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:28 PM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Jatropha cake properties]
Dear Tom
Thanks to Tom, Dr Tom and Dr Paul
Did you put a pot on it? I am interested in whether or not the flames
touched the pot more than usual. That has to be judged by someone who knows
the stove and other fuels well. If the fuel is oilier, will it make the
flames longer to the point that they run along the pot creating more CO?
It may be that a J-seed stove needs a different flame path length to get
great performance.
Jes' thinkin'
Crispin
++++++++
Burning Jatropha seed in a Tom Reed Woodgas Stove at ETHOS 2011. No
emergency vehicles were called and no adverse symptoms were recorded by
observers. Greatest danger was that the seeds "pop" occasionally.
Thanks to Paul Anderson for the demonstration.
Tom Miles
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