Dear Paul
Subject: [Stoves] Testing Jatropha-seed stoves for toxic emissions
The nose is a great analytical tool. If you sniff the products of combustion
from a TLUD running properly on non-toxic fuel, they will have a pleasant,
or at least, not unpleasant smell. Pn the other hand, when not quite working
properly, such as at starting, there can be visible smoke and an unpleasant
smell. However, with non-toxic fuels, the "smell" is not particularily
toxic. On the other hand, if Jatropha is used and if it is at a stage of
combustion where it is making a visibly smokey fire, it is probably
dangerous through containing non-consumed J-toxins.
There are lots of references advocating "Don't go near smoke from burning
Poison Ivy." The same rule would probably apply for J-Smoke. "If you can
smell J-Smoke, don't."
Thus, while a well operating TLUD may be perfectly safe on J-Fuel, there may
be a significant problem or hazard at start-up. Perhaps teh simple solution
is "When using J-Fuel, start it outside, and do not contact smoke. Take
inside only after there is no visible smoke."
Best wishes,
Kevin Chisholm
Content analysis details: (0.0 points)
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_SUMMARY_
Dear Tom and all,
Tom's message (below) raises two questions (each gets a separate Subject
line).
1. Testing for toxins in the emissions from the burning of whole
Jatropha seeds is a valid topic. By far, most testing of Jatropha
burning is of the OIL and not of the whole seeds. And therefore even the
combustion devices are not the same. One answer does resolve the entire
question.
2. TOXINS are NOT measured in the PEMS or other equipment available to
stovers. Toxins-testing needs specialized equipment. Who has it and who
will make it available or who will pay for such testing? Some
universities could have such equipment. Our best hope is at the major
centers that study Jatropha, but thus far they are researching the J-oil
and not the J-seed, and certainly not in TLUD gasifiers.
3. Even with the equipment, the right situations need to be tested.
4. First, they need Jatropha seeds (available, but not easy to get. If
you need some, contact me about possible sources.)
5. Second, there are different ways and differnt devices that could burn
the whole seeds, and testing needs to match the conditions of how the
seeds would actually be combusted. A smouldering pile of J-seeds does
NOT have the same emissions (CO, PM, and now "toxins") as a properly
functioning TLUD-FA gasifier. I specifically said FA (Forced Air)
because we have such devices ready for testing, but we do not yet (close,
but not quite) for TLUD-ND (natural draft).
6. Jatropha seeds as fuel are only the tip of the iceberg. The bigger
topic is "oil-rich biomass." (We will AVOID the food vs. fuel debate by
only dealing with true waste biomass that does not feed humans or
animals.) One example is cashew shells, which have highly caustic oils
and probably toxins.
7. I hope that this message gets passed on into other Listservs or
directly to places which could actually conduct (or facilitate with
payment) the testing of whole Jatropha seeds in TLUD gasifiers. On this
topic, I am here to help (because this is certainly a TLUD-related
topic), but it is far beyond my capabilities to accomplish the needed
testing.
8. I will bring this topic to the attention of each of the BEF Stove
Camps that will occur in areas with Jatropha production.
Opinion: J-seed stoves are in their infancy. The J-seed TLUDs are not
into households yet, so A) there is no need to slow down the development
of the stoves while waiting for test results, and B) it is a great time
to get the testing started before dissemination gets started into
households.
--
Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Known to some as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: [email protected]
Quoting Tom Miles <[email protected]>:
Crispin,
Good thoughts. The Jatropha discussion was "toxic" in that it stimulated
quite a lively debate. We probably got more heat from the discussion than
from the stove on a cold and slightly windy day. No pot. It clearly needs
some careful testing. Good project for Winter stove camp (this week?)
I didn't bring either of my testers. Unfortunately my TSI is in repair
(after burning it up testing a gasifier) and my Testo is in use at a
steam
boiler. Stovers don't seem to carry them. I would have liked to have
tested
the two Aprovecho charcoal stoves that were demonstrated.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:28 PM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Jatropha cake properties]
Dear Tom
Thanks to Tom, Dr Tom and Dr Paul
Did you put a pot on it? I am interested in whether or not the flames
touched the pot more than usual. That has to be judged by someone who
knows
the stove and other fuels well. If the fuel is oilier, will it make the
flames longer to the point that they run along the pot creating more CO?
It may be that a J-seed stove needs a different flame path length to get
great performance.
Jes' thinkin'
Crispin
++++++++
Burning Jatropha seed in a Tom Reed Woodgas Stove at ETHOS 2011. No
emergency vehicles were called and no adverse symptoms were recorded by
observers. Greatest danger was that the seeds "pop" occasionally.
Thanks to Paul Anderson for the demonstration.
Tom Miles
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