Re: [Stoves] In praise of kerosene

Kevin Sat, 11 May 2013 10:55:07 -0700

Dear Ron
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: [email protected] 
  To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
  Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 2:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [Stoves] In praise of kerosene

List:

I'd be interested in our list deniers' opinions on these two short videos

a. 2 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_0JZRIHFtk

# This video is structured to support the IPCC and "believers." It seeks to
ignore the impact of Mother nature on Climate Change.

b. 30 seconds
http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2013/04/ice-cube-volume-video.html

# This is a "dirty trick video" in that it selectively picks only the
Northern Hemisphere data, and is thus not relevant to GW or GCC.

(There are plenty more like this. Any we should look at from the deniers'
side?)

# The "Believers" should include the power of Mother nature in their
analysis. They should open their minds to "True Science". The belief that the
Sun revolved around the Earth was a product of "Consensus Science."

To List master Andrew H - I am sorry to disagree. I think there is
considerable relevance between improved stoves and climate.- especally when the
deners promote a fossil alternative on this biomass list.

# Ron, I would respectfully disagree with you. Stoves should rise or fall on
their own merits. Could this discussion be moved to the biochar-policy List,
where a discussion of Climate Change issues is appropriate?

Thank you.

Kevin

Ron

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jonathan P Gill" <[email protected]>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 9:01:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] In praise of kerosene

Kevin,

It was indeed bad word smithing to have started with the term "Global
Warming". "Global Climate Disruption" is much more accurate, and, I would
expect, inevitable at this late stage. The models are only imperfect, not
wrong. Models can only be as good as the imperfections of our human knowledge,
which can never be perfect, so forget that argument. I doubt very much that
you claim perfect knowledge, so what are the imperfections in your knowledge
preventing you from seeing? As my friend Errol Morris likes to say "believing
is seeing".

You are basically willfully reading the science incorrectly. The models are
imperfect but not "wrong" per se. If you read the items I forwarded to the
list, you might get a better understanding of the heat going into the ocean,
that, while imperfectly understood, is not a good thing.

If you wait for the "perfect model" then your grandchildren will surely have
very unkind words to say about you. Even the British Royals have recently had
some strong words to say about climate change deniers such as you appear to be.
This will be just as true for the many "stovers" who are also climate change
deniers.

At some deep meta level, the problem for many is that Climate Disruption is
the ultimate nail in the coffin of unearned white male privilege. Which may
also help explain why it is white males in the USA who go on gun violence
sprees, not others. IE, this is about a whole lot more than CO2 in the
atmosphere. It is about clinging a way of life with a fatal internal
contradiction: "modern" industrialism powered by fossil carbon. As Hansen
says, this is a truly Faustian bargain.

Cling if you must. I do not envy you trying to explain this to your
grandchildren.

Regards,

Jock

On May 11, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Kevin <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Jock

The IPCC told us that "Global Warming" was the problem. They predicted how
much the air temperature would rise, and they were wrong. Their models were
wrong. Now they are telling us about the dangers of "Climate Change", and not
global warming. The fundamental problem is that their models have been shown to
be faulty.

"Consensus" is a "Political Process to get agreement." "Consensus Science"
is thus "Political Science", and not "Real Science."

I like this quote from the referenced article:
" “The climate may be heating up less in response to greenhouse-gas
emissions than was once thought,” read the article’s tagline. “But that does
not mean the problem is going away.” "

# With their models having been proved to be faulty, how do they know there
is a problem?

Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Jock Gill
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] In praise of kerosene

Steve,

Actually you have that wrong. The oceans are warming up significantly, a
very bad thing. It true that land temperatures have not warmed as much as was
expected. However this only buys a few extra years before climate disruption
becomes severe.

All thesis well explained here: http://nyti.ms/15sfbrd

Regards,

Jock

Jock Gill
P.O. Box 3
Peacham, VT 05862

Cell: (617) 449-8111

:> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere! <:

Sent from my iPad

On May 11, 2013, at 7:56 AM, Steve Taylor <[email protected]>
wrote:

Do you imagine that the higher and higher the concentration, the worse
it gets ? Even the IPCC acknowledges that isn't the case. 15 years of rapidly
rising CO2 concentrations, and zero change in global temperature, acknowledged
by many, including the UK Met Office.

On 11 May 2013 12:43, Paul Olivier <[email protected]> wrote:

Are you serious?

On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:

Please read this - just in from the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/science/earth/carbon-dioxide-level-passes-long-feared-milestone.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130511&_r=0

Or. 0.04%

Since we are all in favour of burning bio-mass, shouldn't we prefer
a higher level of CO2, which would significantly promote plant growth, and
encourage the growth of the stuff we want to burn ?

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