I appreciate Tim sharing these important points. I think we are all turned-off by the tone and repetitiveness of a small handful of strident, regular posters, and certainly anybody who rarely posts--especially elected officials--and then gets blindsided with insults or condescending barbs when doing so is not likely to make the same mistake twice.
I think sarcasm is fine, provided it does not become personal. Great writers use sarcasm effectively all the time, and the fact that that style might be over the top for a lot of those only used to Minnesota Nice is not, in my book, a sufficient reason to stop employing that device. But I think we can also discern between the cynical, sarcastic post and the one that's basically saying "you're stupid, ignorant, and an a**hole to boot." No matter how much I might agree with a poster engaged in a tirade, I know full well that his or her credibility is lost the minute s/he results to insults, personal attacks, or other criticism. If your argument can't be persuasive on its own, then maybe it's better to remain a lurker, because using a personal attack to bolster one's position doesn't strengthen that position in the end. We all get frustrated by what we perceive to be idiotic points of view, but if you can't find a way to respond without resorting to childlike rants, delete the message and move on. Tom Goldstein Mac-Groveland ----- Original Message ----- From: "List Manager" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "St. Paul Issues Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 10:29 AM Subject: [StPaul] Notes on civility and list decorum > > > > The subject of civility and tone often comes up when I'm > corresponding with list members in private or meeting them in person. > Some members of this list object to my efforts to moderate the tone > of the discussion. > > To help inform others, I'd like to share the fact that over the > weekend, I got a private email (fairly typical) from a participant on > this list who has posted only a few times. > > This participant, indicated that he/she is much more likely to read > that to post, because .... > > "I've had some pretty sarcastic comments from one > of the list members and I was hoping to keep a low > profile. Now I see that a lot of these people get > sarcastic and they know each other well." > > I hear from people who are fairly new to our list or to St. Paul > politics on a frequent basis - many of these folks are feel as if our > forum is a closed clique of political insiders who like to be nasty > to each other. This inhibits their participation and limits the > discussion in our forum. > > I suggest that all of those who wish to support and promote open and > broad based political discussion, look closely at the tone and > content of your posts and consider whether or not your actions are > promoting public conversation and debate or discouraging it. > > We have many participants who value the information that they get > from our forum, but are afraid to contribute - because of the > aggressive and nasty tone that some of our participants often take. > Many of these "silent" lurkers, work in city or county government, > community agencies, or district councils - AND could contribute > much, in terms of information and opinions, to our discussion, if we > encouraged them to do so. Many are simply citizens interested in > getting more involved in government or politics and are using our > forum to learn more about it. > > To those lurkers, I would like to say that only a few of our most > vocal participants are the "insiders" that they sometimes appear to > be and many of us know each other, only from the posts in this forum. > The best way to change the sometimes sarcastic and aggressive tone > that appears from time to time, is to counter it with thoughtful > posts and examples of civility. > > The quality of our forum is only as great as the contributions that > we get from as many people as possible. The MORE active participants > that we have, the less any individual or small group can dictate the > tone of the forum. > > Best wishes, > > -- > Tim Erickson > List Manager > St. Paul Issues Forum > http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/ > Hamline Midway Resident > 651-643-0722 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > St. Paul Links - http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/links.html > > "The St. Paul Issues Forum is a interactive e-mail discussion on > important issues about St. Paul public policy. Participation is free > and open to anyone. We currently have about 350 concerned citizens > and community leaders subscribed to our discussion." > _____________________________________________ > NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul > > Archive Address: > http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/ > _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
