Final chance to comment on rules revision, go to:
While the nay-sayers keep talking about how mass
transit won't work, a very important part of the
equation has not been discussed. Today human beings
are using fossil fuels at the rate of 80 MILLION
BARRELS of oil a day, or 28 BILLION BARRELS a year.

If we continue to use fossil fuels at this rate, (this
does not include increased usage by Third World
Countries such as China and India), we will delete all
known petroleum reserves of 1,032,132 million barrels
or 1.032 Trillion barrels in 35 to 37 years, well
within the lifetime of a lot of people on this board. 
Even if we double the amount of known reserves, say to
2.064 Trillion barrels, and keep usage at the present
level, we will delete most petroleum in 70 to 74

Thus it is critical that we begin to convert our
transportation systems now, when there are funds and
fuels available. Do you really want to own a home in
Eden Prairie and Maplewood, or even further out, when
gas hits the equivalent of $6.00, $7.00 of $10.00 a
gallon or would you rather be able to walk from your
front door to a street-car or light rail system run by

Unless we begin to make a huge shift to a hydrogen
economy, created by wind and other renewables, come 50
to 100 years from now, the societal dislocations will
be so severe we can't even begin to imagine the
consequences today. 

Hopefully, I'll be 85 years old driving my hydrogen
powered car with hydrogen created from tap water by my
own wind turbine, but where are the plans?

Dan Dobson
Summit Hill

--- John Birrenbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Final chance to comment on rules revision, go to:
> ---------------------------------------
> At 2:18 PM -0600 11/9/04, Andy Driscoll wrote:
> >  after William (?) Lowry built Archbishop
> >John Ireland's Grand Avenue streetcar line all the
> way out to the farm
> >fields
> As I read and re-read this and what I posted
> yesterday the more and 
> more I began to realize that what was built for
> Ireland, by Lowry, is 
> what started the urban sprawl to begin with, and is
> the root of the 
> whole metro area's current transit problems.  We are
> sprawled out, 
> not up.
> How Ironic that we are now looking at building is
> the very thing that 
> allowed communities like Merriam Park to SPRAWL out
> from the city of 
> St Paul and Mpls, which in turn eventually caused
> the very transit 
> issues we see today.  See how the best laid plans of
> Mice and Men can 
> go awry?
> Another part of the problem that really needs to be
> talked about is 
> the density of population per acre.  It is my
> general understanding 
> that those Rail transit systems that work, not only
> for the consumer 
> but are also less of a drain on limited tax dollars,
> are those in 
> area's of extreme population density.
> NY for example.... all those people living in
> apartments in the HEART 
> of the city (yea there are commuters, but look at
> the population 
> density of residents the vast majority of the
> systems users).
> When you look at some of these cities, you see
> massive towers, for 
> MILES, packed with people.  Here we have everyone
> spread out all over 
> the place (thanks to planning in the early part of
> this century).
> I look at who is gonna end up paying for the vast
> majority of this. 
> I wonder what the rider costs vs the actual costs of
> setup and 
> running are going to be.  Anyone know what the costs
> per passenger 
> are for the Hiawatha line vs the ticket price?
> Is this a totally free ride at the expense of the
> taxpayers or is 
> it's costs going to be born, eventually, by the
> riders?  If it's 
> going to be paid in total by ridership it seems to
> me that the 
> population density of the cities doesn't make that
> happen, unless 
> your able to drive and park at some station to ride
> the train.
> If the costs are born by the taxpayers then there is
> no reason to not 
> start right now, it's only gonna get more expensive
> as time goes on. 
> If it's a free ride for anyone who wants to get on,
> it would 
> certainly increase ridership and reduce traffic on a
> scale never seen 
> before.
> I have to agree with Eric that serious leadership
> needs to come from 
> the County, serious money too if they want us to run
> outside the 
> city.  At the same time those other communities
> everyone is so quick 
> to say the eventual routes will run through need to
> be involved as 
> well... we don't need another 35E unconnected in the
> middle for three 
> decades do we?
> -- 
> Sincerely,
> John Birrenbach
> W 7th Neighborhood, St Paul MN
> === Political & Business Consulting ===
> ======================================
> The Counter to Republican Radio
> ======================================
> "Six years on the council has trained me to feign
> interest for long 
> periods of time"
> Chris Coleman Jan 21, 2004
> +++++++++++++++
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