John makes some valid points, as do many of the posters regarding light rail or street cars. However, I would disagree that this metro area was designed for the auto. There was a very good street car system in place until our venerable Carl Pohlad and his friends destroyed it for his bus system. The cost for the installation of a rail system is large. But it also affords opportunities the current system of highways and byways. The one thing that a rail system can do that paved roads can't do is increase the amount of passengers without additional lanes of traffic. The cost of additional lanes of traffic is more than just the money it takes to acquire the land, and build it. The cost includes destruction of neighborhoods, added pollution etc. We may be a community of cars, but if you look most of the cars have only one person in it. Talk about an expensive proposition. Think about this. How fast could we build a light or heavy rail system, if the money we spend on cars and other modes of transportation annually were devoted to the rail system? Many of us seem to think its necessary that we have a car at hand. It allows us to go where we want to go when we want to go. Unfortunately, most of us also think its our right. Yet if you moved to Washington, New York Chicago and other cities, I think you would quickly change your mind. I have ridden the European, Salt Lake and the entire Portland systems. When in Washington, I only use the Metro. The wait is short. The rides are enjoyable and you don't have a whole lot of limitation to getting to where you want to go. In fact, the bus system works in partnership with the Metro. What can be better. I favor a spoke system. One spoke to St. Cloud through Maple Grove. One Spoke North to, Say, Hinkley, One South to Red Wing, Cannon Falls, and Rochester. One Spoke South west to Burnsville. One spoke West to Willmar. One Spoke North East to Stillwater. One East to Hudson. Of course there would be a link between St. Paul and Minneapolis. In many cases there are old rail lines that could be used. Yes, in many cases this would mean working within the current bike system to ensure that we wouldn't lose those amenities. Mike Fratto Payne Phalen
>>> John Birrenbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11/08/2004 8:36:49 PM >>> I don't know I get conflicting ideas from the City... on one hand they have this idea of Street cars which well might look cutsie are really a pain and don't adjust to the needs, wants, or changing needs of the community (rail tracks and all). On the other you have what is on the Cities website (which you should really take a look at http://www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/maps/DowntownMaps/index.html ). It happens to show LRT going down Univerisity going in and out of Downtown through what looks like Robert St to the Union Depot. St Paul, Minneapolis the entire metro area was designed to be a place to drive your car (for goodness sakes we have one of the remaining DRIVE IN THEATERS in the East Metro). People in MN are attached to their cars and that is not likely to change. We might, if the transit system metro wide, is convenient enough, get a few people from WI, Northern, Western, and Southern suburbs to use LRT to get to and from work, but traveling to the airport and between DT's is not really gonna happen to as great a degree as I think (my Opinion) others believe. LRT is very nice idea to bring people in and get them off the Interstates. But you have to do it smartly kinda like Chicago does. Pick a point (Union Station) and have all your communter trains from the burbs converge there, then it's just a matter of picking up either another train or a bus to reach your local destination. No where do Trolly's fit into a picture of a ever changing transit system needs. The idea of connecting each of the DT's is nice, but not many are gonna wait for a train they will want to use their cars especially if it's a regular thing, but it is not really gonna solve the problem of 94, 280, 35W, 35E intersections being congested. What strikes me odd is that in one single swipe, the Native American's could shut the yam holes of everyone now wanting a piece of their pie, by building a LRT to the Hinkley Casino. Not only would it be usable as a commuter rail but also to bring people to their Casino. It would be a move that would make so many people happy it would be a coup in public relations state wide for all the tribes. -- Sincerely, John Birrenbach W 7th Neighborhood, St Paul MN === Political & Business Consulting === http://www.birrenbach.com/ ====================================== The Counter to Republican Radio http://www.airamericaradio.com/ ====================================== "Six years on the council has trained me to feign interest for long periods of time" Chris Coleman Jan 21, 2004 +++++++++++++++ _____________________________________________ To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _____________________________________________ St. Paul Topics - This Week: Light Rail http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul-topics _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/ _____________________________________________ To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _____________________________________________ St. Paul Topics - This Week: Light Rail http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul-topics _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
