On Sat, Sep 17, 2005 at 07:52:44PM +0200, Julien Cornuwel wrote: > Matthew Toseland a ?crit : > > >On Sat, Sep 17, 2005 at 06:36:53PM +0200, Julien Cornuwel wrote: > > > >As far as the above goes, please read the responses to the other post. > > I did. So you confirm my understanding ? 99% of current Freenet users > won't be able to join the darknet and will have to use opennet.
In the short term, perhaps. In the West you won't need to have known somebody for 25 years in order to trust them enough to connect to their node; I would be happy to connect to a number of people I have never met, who I know online. There are a few parameters here: 1. Are they an acquaintance, beyond random computer selection? We must not connect people randomly, because routing requires a small world graph. 2. Do you trust them enough for them to know for sure that you run a freenet node? It may be illegal in some places, in which case you will need to pick more carefully. 3. Do you trust them not to launch attacks on you in order to break your anonymity? How difficult such attacks are depends on the design decisions we make in 0.7.0, and hopefully in future they will be more difficult, but you will always be most vulnerable to your immediate neighbours (just as you are most vulnerable to your real life friends in real life). > > >>Suppose Freenet 0.7 becomes illegal in France (what it already is, > >>because of the AES 256 encryption). My understanding is that the french crypto regulations were abandoned some time ago. > >>The opennet won't be secure for us, > >>but we won't be able to join the darknet. What could we do ? Keep on > >>using 0.5 ? Make your own darknet. :) Then come to Bristol, take me out for a pizza, and I'll connect to your node ;). Seriously, there needs to be some sort of relationship for the small world properties to hold, but beyond that it's not such a big deal. > > > >The opennet will probably be more secure than 0.5. But both are very > >easy to shut down, because they can be very easily harvested - all nodes > >can be found easily, meaning they can be blocked, attacked, etc. > > That is why I'm searching a way for someone who is neither a member of > alpha-testers/Freenet-devs, nor a very organised terrorist/paedophile to > join the darknet. Surprisingly enough most paedophiles are disorganized. Just like most other people are disorganized. > > Do you think it would be possible for nodes in the darknet to see what > happens in the opennet ? > Maybe a special kind of nodes that acts as a gateway between the 2 > networks : it wouldn't endanger the anonymity of thoses who are in the > darknet but it would give them the ability to see the newcommers and > eventually decide to invite them. *Any* node on the opennet is vulnerable to being found, blocked, seized etc. However there is no reason that content cannot be migrated from one to the other. > > My opinion is that a resistance-network has to be closed tight when war > is on. But it needs to create itself before that. So if some people > could choose the become some "fuses" between open and dark, the darknet > would remain safe and be able to "recruit". It is IMHO strategically vital that we can test the network as a pure darknet. We will need an opennet as well, because we need to have something for people to download from freenetproject.org. > > I'm affraid that if this fonctionnality isn't enabled in Freenet, people > will do it by other ways (internet forums, mailing-lists, weak encrypted > emails, etc.) which are way less secure than Freenet. Or worse, some > will decide to publish their keys and allow anyone to connect to the > darknet through them... In which case there will be weak segments of the darknet. That does not undermine the whole structure. The mainstreamers can still use the opennet. I expect there to be some cross-recruiting. But the intention is for the darknet to be separate from the opennet. People who happen to be on both can migrate content manually. They can also get to know people on the opennet, and perhaps add them later. I first met Ian after having worked for him for around a year; I have a friend in Australia who I've never met but I would be perfectly happy to connect my node to. But at this stage, I would happily connect to Newsbyte. Or CofE if I knew him, but I obviously wouldn't want him to breach his carefully guarded anonymity just for that. :) > > -- > http://www.freenet-fr.org -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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