Thoughts from a lurker:
I believe that it is important for all of us to resist the use of flawed 
statistics, whether it's used to prosecute the innocent or the guilty.I believe 
that it matters how we gather and use evidence.I believe that it is important 
for the means to justify the end result--the ends cannot be used to justify the 
I know this runs the risk of allowing a guilty person to go free. But our 
justice system is built on the principle that it is better to presume 
innocence, rather than guilt. And there is no guilty person in the world who 
can perfectly and completely cover their tracks. Invariably, one can build up 
enough evidence in other ways to make a case, if one exists.
All of that said... I do not believe that we are obligated to help. Obligation 
is a strong word. Some of us here have the knowledge to try and assist. Some of 
us do not (and I'm in the latter category). There are no employees; nobody is 
being paid; everybody is a volunteer. That means any sense of obligation must 
be left to an individual's sense of morality or code of ethics. Which, yes, 
means that sometimes an invalid warrant may pass unquestioned, if only because 
nobody with the knowledge is available to question it. That's life in a 
volunteer organization.

If I had the knowledge, I would step up. Unfortunately, I do not. I will 
support those who do step up, and I will not condemn those who do not.

    On Monday, July 25, 2016 12:03 PM, Steve Dougherty <steve at> 

 Hi Hayley,
To make sure it's clear, this is a publicly visible mailing list.
I assume you've seen the news post about flawed surveillance techniques? It goes over our 
understanding of attacks used by law enforcement and why they appear to be 
heavily fundamentally flawed. If we can help elaborate on parts of it please 
let us know. The attacks we are aware of included information about how far 
away the request probably originated; (Hops To Live - HTL) you didn't mention 
that, and without it the attack is even less accurate than the effectively 
entirely inaccurate thing it already is.
As a non-profit organization running an open source project, we don't currently 
have employees, hence the lack of a phone number. You may be able to find 
someone in the community willing to participate; if this is the case I think 
it is we've been following it with interest for a while now. Could you please 
elaborate on what is involved in reviewing the search warrant, reviewing the 
police report, or being an expert witness? Would this be an attempt to 
invalidate the search and suppress evidence acquired with it?
Now addressing others on the list: I note an ethical dilemma here. It may well 
be that the accused is guilty of the things they are accused of, and 
invalidating this presumably-mistaken search warrant would allow them to go 
free. That said, do we want to resist the application of flawed statistics in 
prosecuting Freenet users? I'm leaning toward probably. Selectively assisting 
in fighting search warrants that seem invalid also seems unethical. Are we 
obligated to help?

- Steve

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:33 PM Hayley Rosenblum <hrosenb1 at> wrote:

I am a law intern at Rosenblum, Schwartz, Rogers, & Glass, P.C. in St. Louis, 
MO. As a criminal defense firm, we have recently been hired for a Possession of 
Child Pornography case. According to the police report , a special investigator 
began running copies of Freenet that had been modified for law enforcement to 
log the IP address, key, and date, and time of requests that were sent to these 
law enforcement Freenet nodes which were then compared to keys of known child 
pornography. The special investigator observed an IP address routing/and or 
requesting suspected child pornography file blocks. The special investigation 
noted that the number and timing of the request was significant enough to 
indicate that the IP address was the apparent original requester of the file.

We have doubts about the legitimacy of this based off some brief research we 
have done on Freeness and how it works. Is there anyone I could contact to 
discuss having a Freenet employee/specialist to review the search warrant and 
police report and/or potentially hire as an expert witness. If so, how much 
would you charge for that?

Any information or further contacts would be great. I didn’t see a phone 
number on the website, so I figured i’d start with an email!

Thank you,

Hayley Rosenblum
Law Intern
Rosenblum, Schwartz, Rogers, & Glass P.C.
hrosenb1 at
office: 314-862-4332_______________________________________________
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