Greetings all, If nothing else, well said! There is much we do not know about magnetism in general. I am facinated by the life of Nicola Tesla. He seems far ahead of his time. When something goes against what many of us have been taught and accept as truth we often react critically. As a scientist I accept this criticism even when harse as relatively benign. It«s part of the scientific process. We in science do not really prove anything. We rather good at disproving things. But no scientist worth his salt will give you anything more than a probability that something is the truth. I appreciate your input but with this, as the saying goes, I«m from Missouri I have to be shown.
Thanks, Tom Irwin -----Original Message----- From: D. Mindock To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 1/04/05 5:10 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device To All, I must say first of all that I was only acting as the bearer of the information. I also did not say that I believed it was real, only that I hoped that it was. Anything wrong with that? If you read the Lutec website you will see that they do not want your money, even if you offered it to them. (My friend Renee has known co-inventor John since the early 80's when he was working on this device. She later lost contact with him when he moved to Santa Cruz. She was surprised, relieved, and very happy to see that John might have finally got the device to work.) Now for Michael's point that no energy is produced since force x distance = energy. I don't know, but if the magnet is counteracting the force of gravity, it seems that something energetic must be doing this. Let's do a mental experiment. Suppose that a steel bearing is precisely balancing the force of gravity so that the bearing is suspended in space. Now let's introduce a very small magnet next to the bigger one that holding the bearing suspended. What will happen? The bearing will rise against the force of gravity until it contacts the magnet. Work was done, obviously. But now the magnet is not doing classical work since the bearing is in contact with it. No movement implies no energy expenditure. Only potential energy remains. The inventors compare this situation to one using an electromagnet. If an electromagnet is used you must pump current through the coil winding to make the magnetic force arise. To hold the bearing in place against the force of gravity you must expend energy to hold the bearing. Energy is used up as the current goes through the windings. The magnet does this for "free". That's their argument. Is it sound? Well, if the windings and source had zero resistance, the loss would be zero, and it too would be "free". So it doesn't seem to be a valid argument. Maybe they were using baby talk to explain a complex idea? But by simplifying they missed the mark. It could be that this device is working in spite of an imperfect knowledge, by the inventors, of it. Inventors do a huge amount of trial and error steps as they try to perfect their concept. And most are not PhD's in quantum physics. WRT the patent, it is always safer to make the lesser claim. I think that's what they did. In a field as controversial as this, it is the pragmatic thing to do. It could be that the device is working but the reasons given are not the actual ones. It could be because of some unknown reaction. The bottom line to me is the measurements. If the energy output is greater than the energy input then it's "working". It is very nice indeed though to know how/why the device is doing what it's doing. It might take a lot of lab analysis to get to that point. I would hope that some top flight lab is doing this kind of work on the Lutec device. (and others, but let's leave them aside). As I implied from my original message, I HOPE the Lutec device is real. I won't bet $1000 on it, for sure! Maybe $1. If it isn't the one we're all waiting for, from what I have read by some very smart people, it is only a matter of time before the Casimir Force and what it represents, really is harnessed, now that it's existence is proven. These physicists subject themselves to the disdain of their peers but nevertheless forge ahead. We should all be thankful that such people exist. In the past, all inventors/researchers of really new technology were ridiculed, some were even jailed or worse. (Big Oil must be very fearful that this technology gets out without their total control of it.) Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. I don't consider this subject to be spam. It is about energy and that's what biofuel is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Nehring" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device > Hi, > I've been on the list for a couple months now, reading happily, but have > yet to post anything. So first, hi everyone:-). > Internet scams or jokes are among my favorites, just because sometimes > they're so funny and sometimes they're just so clever. I have to admit > that this is pretty clever. First, there is reference to a US Patent > application on their website. After do a little searching, I found a > patent (granted) as described by them. US Patent number 6,630,806 > viewable at: > http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL &p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,630,806.WKU.&OS=PN/6,630, 806&RS=PN/6,630,806 > > (Here one can note the inefficiency of the US patent office, since the > website address includes the patent number 3 times, where one time would > have sufficed). > However, the patent is not for an unlimited energy machine, but rather > "[t]he present invention is aimed at providing an improved rotary device > which operates with improved efficiency compared to conventional rotary > devices." > > So it seems they just invented a smoother motor, perhaps. > > Basically their claim says that they will extract the stored energy from > perminant magnets. I invite those who believe that claim to read: > http://phact.org/e/z/freewire.htm > > The most important point is: > Point 1. Under ideal conditions the electrical power output generated > when you > move a conductor through a magnetic field is exactly equal to the > mechanical power > input needed to move the conductor. > > A more complete debunking can be found here: > http://www.phact.org/e/z/lutec.pdf > > So if you happen to be someone who's looking to invest in green projects, > don't give these people a cent (or whatever the lowest value of your own > currency may be). > > Just one quote from the second debunking article which I find really good: > "Where do the inventors think the energy is coming from? Their response to > this article claims that a permanent magnet holding up a heavy iron object > for a long time is doing work, ie supplying energy. We point out that the > formula for work is the force acting multiplied by the distance moved, > thus zero movement gives zero energy." > > Ok, I hope that wasn't all too long. > > Have a nice day everyone, > -Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "D. Mindock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;> > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:45 AM > Subject: [Biofuel] The Lutec over unity device > > > This device (see attached pic) is due for release, starting in Australia > where Lutec Pty Ltd is located, and then > to all countries where licensing is completed. This device can furnish the > all the electricity > needed by the average home and runs on battery power. It produces 15 times > more energy > than it uses from the battery input. It's installed in the home where it's > to be used. > See their website at: www.lutec.com.au It appears to be the real deal. > Let's hope it is. > Peace and light, D. Mindock P.S. It is interesting that the Australian > government would not provide > any startup help whatsoever. Let's hope nothing stops the release of this > new technology. It does > seem that every time something like this comes along it is trashed by > vested powers. It is not hard > to imagine this technology powering cars and trucks, producing zero > pollution and unlimited > mileage. > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): >> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/