Hi Dave You mentioned biodiesel you made with "the normal base/base process", which, according to your results with it, Aleks says is sloppy biodiesel. I don't know what the normal base/base process might be. Which process did you use exactly?
Best Keith Addison >Camillo, >That news about poor quality German biodiesel and VW is depressing >indeed. It's exactly what UK doesn't need. We want to be in >production as soon as possible after next April, but if even VW have >doubts we'll have even less chance of finding business investors. > >Can we not persuade VW to warrant it's cars for DIN 51606 fuel and >nothing less? They are well placed to publicise the quailty issue and >to promote decent biofuel. Can recognised German and Austrian >biodesel professionals not visit them to discuss. > >My point about separating potentially lower quality esters was just >to avoid this issue. Sub DIN 51606 ester has a market, but not at the >pumps and it should never be corroding/clogging engines. > >I agree that to confirm or deny my experiences with various "home >brews" you would need to run controlled tests and use a properly >equipped laboratory. I'd hoped to convey that point. > >I am still concerned though. If the different esterification process >really do produce different calorific values we have a commercial >problem. My crude "tests" indicates this might be so. Does anybody >know of any studies which bear out my experience? > >Dave > >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Camillo Holecek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > May I add my two cents, too? > > > > Here we reach the limit of what could be done without proper >analysis of our > > products = homemade biodiesel. To clarify such subtleties like the > > difference on what you call base/base and acid/base, you can not do >without > > giving that stuff to a laboratory who is equiped and certified to >do DIN > > standard testing. Yes, that may be something like 100U$ per sample. >No, > > there is no other way, unless you call a gas chromatography kit and >all the > > other testing equipment you own ;-) > > > > Only then can you KNOW if you have mono/di/triglycerides left in >your brew, > > or potasium, or soap, or acid (!) or phosphor, or whatever. What do >you > > think, why the DIN standard consists of more then 30 different >chemical and > > physical parameters? > > > > Quality is CRUCIAL in our industry. Some clever, self appointed, >german > > biodiesel makers have managed to ruin the reputation of BD so much, >that it > > appeares possible that even VW will bring out it's 2002 models >WITHOUT BD > > approval in protest of the widespread poor quality biodiesel found >at german > > pumping stations (poor means of course also way below DIN 51606 >quality > > standards). > > > > Camillo Holecek > > > > > > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > > Von: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > m > > [mailto:sentto-3381553-178-993619357- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > elist.com]Im Auftrag von Keith Addison > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Juni 2001 07:31 > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Betreff: [biofuels-biz] Re: Bio- vs. Palm Oil? > > > > >On fuel quality we have to be "whiter than white" and be seen to be > > >so. > > > > > >Dave > > > > Hi Dave > > > > Indeed yes. You raised some previous questions about quality. > > > > >High FFA fats can be acid esterified - see Alecs Kak's recipe on > > >www.journeytoforever.org. However, I would add that you do need to > > >titrate. High levels of FFA need longer in the acid stage so how >long > > >is enough if you don't know the FFA content. > > > > <snip> > > > > >I'm not convinced the calorific value is as good as plain base > > >reacted ester so would appreciate what you find out on that. > > > > Also: > > > > >I have tested some ester made using the acid/base/base process. It > > >worked fine and I got less byproduct than when I use the normal > > >base/base process. However, on base/base ester, my car's fuel trip > > >computer will register about 44 mpg after about 5 miles of 70mph > > >driving. > > > > > >With the acid/base product it would struggle to 40mpg under the >same > > >conditions. Yesterday I added 4 gals of base/base to the tank which > > >already contained about 4 gals of acid/base fuel. Within 5 miles, >my > > >trip computer was showing 44mpg and rising. This is the second >time I > > >have had this result, so it's not a oneoff event. > > > > > >We need to be careful. If we try to sell acid/base fuel as being >the > > >same as base/base fuel then we have to be sure it really IS the >same. > > > > > >I'm sure my acid reacted fuel lost something - oxygens maybe? Is it > > >simply stripping the glycerols from FFA, leaving the FFA to mix in > > >with the ester made by the base reaction process? This could >explain > > >the low calorific value. > > > > > >Proper research is needed on this question. > > > > I forwarded this to Aleks. Here's his response. > > > > "Biodiesel has a lower calorific value per litre than triglics mixes > > (oil/fat). If he does make more mpg on base bio, this means that he > > is driving on something else than methyl esters. I presume that this > > would be a mix of methyl/mono-/di-/(possible tri-) glcerids. That's > > called sloppy biodiesel. True, it packs more carbon into the > > cylinders, but it also emits acroleins. I'm (almost) ashamed to >say : > > I use it (offroad). It > > really packs more power because it has a higher density. On the >other > > hand, I can > > see my exhaust fumes and this isn't quite good. > > > > "Re titration - determinig exact reaction time is a pain because ffa > > levels vary wildly. I established two categories: > > 1. up to heavily used liquid fat and medium used solid fat : 1.75 >hrs > > 2. more than medium used solid fat and up : 2.25 hrs > > Longer reaction times just cost time and energy. You get a little > > better results, but the price is high." > > > > Best > > > > Keith Addison > > > > > > Biofuels at Journey to Forever > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel at WebConX > > http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >Biofuel at WebConX >http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
