Hallo Kim, Thursday, 28 July, 2005, 08:20:54, you wrote:
GKT> Greetings, GKT> First I would like to say good luck on your new venture. Have you GKT> read the entire small farms library at JTF? It is a great place GKT> to start. GKT> Are you aware of just how much land 15 hectares is? To farm that GKT> much land, you are going to need some serious equipment. That is, GKT> if you plan on doing it sustainably. You would be running GKT> thousands of chickens and hundreds of pigs in order to create GKT> enough manure to bring back depleted land. Fifteen hectares is less than 40 acres of land. Serious equipment? Depends on how "serious" is defined. The Amish in our area have done wonders with marginal land although it has taken them time to bring the land back into full production and perhaps more importantly they have a community to rely on until the farms do become fully productive. It must be kept in mind also that the Amish do not farm with the aim of making a profit they farm with the aim of providing for their family, but they do make a small profit. Back in the 80's I was talking with an Amish friend with 8 kids. He made almost $3,000 profit that year. But, he raised most of his own food including meat, milk, eggs, veggies and raised all of the feed for his animals. The three grand was used to buy what he couldn't produce himself including cloth and thread to make clothing. Also, they are diverse in their planting and their livestock as well. Monoculture is not what they practice. Another thing which needs defining is "profit" and "sustainable". We may differ in our definitions and believe we are speaking of the same thing. Three grand would not be "profit" to some while it is an abundance to others. For starters, one person with a team of decent horses can handle 60-80 acres. A team of horses produces manure. One cow will produce milk and calves and at least 40 pounds of manure daily. Crop rotation and planting for soil, water and weed conditions is a must. Make use of your county agent (if they have ag agents in Uruguay) and check out the Small Farmer's Journal. What you are talking about is possible but you don't want to walk into it blindly or with unreal expectations like the hippies did in the 60's. It will be hard work for short bucks and a lot of sacrifice and making do. You have to learn to do more with less. If you go into it looking only to survive you should, if you are smart, learn how to live. Do remember though, the Amish have a community on which to rely and you will be on your own. If I sound discouraging then good, because unless you have the will and are well prepared you will fail. I have seen many people who love the "lifestyle" of plain people falter and fail because they are not willing to sacrifice what they consider their simple pleasures and conveniences and are hardly prepared for the work involved. GKT> The real beauty of sustainable farming is how little land you GKT> need to raise enough food for several families. I do belive that GKT> the quoted figures are 1 hectare for a family of 6, and that GKT> includes income. Yes, this is one kind of sustainable, I certainly agree. GKT> Assuming that you understand the above, then I would suggest that GKT> you look into breeds. Many of the old endangered breeds are best GKT> for sustainable farming. For example: Tamworth pigs. These are a GKT> smaller bacon pig, not a lard pig. They do not survive factory GKT> farming and being enclosed and are therefore endangered, but they GKT> are a fabulous pasture pig. They live in the pasture, year round GKT> in snowy areas and in the heat. And they are no more expensive GKT> than good breeding stock of any other breed. The trick is to know GKT> what the challenges of your area are and to pick stock that can GKT> thrive where you are. Then, you don't have all the expensive GKT> medicines and upkeep that factory farmers put up with. The Tamworth is a great hog. Very friendly and also disease resistant and hardy. As for prices it depends on where you buy. If you buy feeders from a farmer you will get normal feeder prices. If you buy feeders from a rare/minor breed conservancy type you will get screwed. I bought registered Tamworth feeders from a farmer for $50 each and the next closest price was $350 from the conservancy people. GKT> The other thing to look at is what is your feed going to? While I GKT> know that you don't want to do cattle, they are the easiest GKT> explanation of what I mean. When comparing live weight to dressed GKT> weight, if you can find animals that can hit 60% of the live GKT> weight in dressed weight, then your feed has been well used. GKT> Dexter is an excellent example of this kind of cattle. But if GKT> your dressed weight is only 40%, then your feed has gone to GKT> growing something that is in the waste stream and this is not GKT> profitable. You are absolutely correct. The trick is to waste nothing. Learning to butcher at home is also beneficial particularly if you are raising hogs. Knowing when to butcher is also essential. The 60% guideline is handy but it also depends on what you are after. If you waste nothing, do your own butchering, use every bit of milk sensibly (you can feed hogs with excess milk you know which I don't consider a waste) then 40% may not be bad for you. You may consider the trade off to be even. GKT> The most important thing, unfortunately is regulations. How do GKT> you get to market with your animals? What costs of processing do GKT> you have to pay? What will the government let you do? Dealing with the government is always stick as far as I am concerned. There are ways around this though. In our area there are local farmers sales every Saturday at the county fairgrounds where all sorts of live animals are sold as well as produce, eggs, farm equipment, etc. There is also an auction there every week in which nearly everything is sold. If one uses the animals for subsistance or sells them live there is not a problem. Selling vegetables can be more profitable than selling crops which are better for supporting ones livestock. An acre or two of well planned and kept garden is worth its weight in gold. Study those who are making it, define your terms and goals and be specific in this, decide what you are able to live without and what is important in your life and then talk to as many people as possible who are doing what you want to do and then make your decision. Get informed. We raised 3 kids and bought and paid for our place on less than $10,000 a year. I came out of the Nam disabled and when my wife and I were married we lived on $370 a month of which $100 came off the top for rent. You can do it but you have to make some hard choices, particularly in the beginning. There is a lot of "make do or do without". Never stop learning and never stop helping others to learn. I haven't been to Uruguay since the 60's and don't know if they have any plain people there. I know there are Amish and Mennonites in the Central/South American region but I don't remember where. Perhaps Hutterites as well but again I am not sure. If there are any plain people there get in touch with them. Unfortunately I didn't make it out of Montevideo area. Beautiful country and great people. I loved it there. Truth be told I loved it everywhere. It is a beautiful and wonderful and interesting world we live in despite our troubles. Happy Happy, Gustl PS-Never buy anything new which you don't absolutely have to when you can get something used but entirely suitable. Buy quality tools and equipment. The price of one quality piece of gear will be less than the many cheap ones you will have to replace. GKT> At 06:53 AM 7/28/2005, you wrote: >>Hi All, >> >>It looks like I've finally convinced the wife to make the investment in >>some land and do some sustainable farming. I've been practicing in my >>garden many years and would like to begin with pigs and chickens since >>everyone else seems to be raising cattle and sheep. I live in Uruguay. >>There are quite a few small holdings (7 to 25 heactares) available at >>prices I can afford. I am doing vermiculture and have a fair understanding >>of soils but I've never raised animals other than pets. Do I purchase good >>land that's arable or marginal land and improve it with the pigs and >>chickens? What sort of water flows, either underground or surface, will I >>require? How many pigs and chickens can I raise sustainably on say 15 >>hectares. I want to be self sufficient or at least as much as possible. I >>want to be low tech but profitable. Any suggestions out there would be >>appreciated. >> >>Tom Irwin >> GKT> _______________________________________________ GKT> Biofuel mailing list GKT> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org GKT> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org GKT> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: GKT> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html GKT> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): GKT> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. ******** We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. ******** The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters" ******** Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. ******** Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin ******** The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
