Hi Luzemario, On 17 Feb 2022, at 13:35, Luzemario via Svardos-users wrote:
> Debug is essential for programmers, only. Not all DOS users are programmers. > Actually most of DOS users are hackers, but what? If such user cannot access > the network (so there is no e-mail), will he/she type an *assembler* debug > script... by hand? support case... to DOS? I agree with Robert that DEBUG is a very essential tool, because it can be used to bootstrap other binaries. And yes, I do such stuff, typing in assembly into DEBUG to patch binaries or even to create new program binaries. > how many users does uses DOS today, if not to recover vintage computers? My use case is not to recover, but to *use* vintage computer. I use SvarDos on 8088/8086/286 type machines, and FreeDOS on 386/486 type machines. > it is almost an hobby at all. Franky, I doubt there are more DOS users than > BSD users nowadays. I know there is a bit of embedded and industrial systems > running DOS, but they are really few. And what about DOS being the ONLY/MAIN > OS? It is really rare, even on 3rd world countries. But that has no relevance to the question. If DEBUG is useful for the user base of SvarDos, as small as that user base might be, it should stay. If it is not useful for the SvarDOS users, it should go. > > Yes, I want to have debug tool handy, but I install it as a package, just > before the emergency happens. I do not see the need to have it on the install > floppies if space constraints are an issue. DEBUG can be helpful in bootstrapping an SvarDos install. I sometimes have used such tool on vintage computer events, where I only had Internet on my phone, and no network connection to the vintage machine (an no "modern" machine in reach). In these situations I was able to use DEBUG to type in small assembly language scripts that I found on some website (reading on the phone, typing on the old machine), or adjusting BIOS or DOS parameter tables to prepare for an install (or even patch MBR/Partition Tables on disk). > And yes again, I am another one that like to have debug tool ready, but we > are on 21st century. Even the old computers will face another reality, so > they are not alone anymore as on the previous century. If SvarDOS will be a > candidate to post-apocalyptic OS, then yes, I urge to include all the tools > on floppies... ;-) > > I agree that DEBUG is a very flexible tool, but we need to establish a mark > here. Do we are making a new DOS, which space constrains are the main > objective?, or we are doing another FreeDOS/MS-DOS clone? I understand that > SvarDOS *is not* MS-DOS, DR-DOS, or any other type of DOS clone. It have its > own personality. > If the current DEBUG binary is too heavy (in disk size), maybe there is another (similar) tool that is free/open-source and would be a light weight replacement. The functions that I would use from such a tool: * dump memory (hex) * disassemble 8086/80286 code * assemble 8086/80286 code * read/write sectors (via BIOS) * save COM files * save BIN files (memory dump) * trace execution * execute code A tiny 1024-4096 byte sized Forth system would work for me as well, as I can use it to bootstrap everything from there, but that might have an even smaller user base than DEBUG :) Creating the smallest DEBUG clone that implements the functions above might be an interesting challenge. Greetings Carsten
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