--- In [email protected], Doug Schepers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...I politely asked you to > self-moderate, which you agreed to do; you have not honored your > promise, and I have thus set your posting privileges to "moderated" > status. If you have something constructive to say, I will allow > the post to go through. Doug, don't do that. The list risks imploding, cutting itself out of the realities. The guys are expressing their deceptions and their hanger. The SVG evangelists list not having quite made it, this list has always been de facto a discussion forum as well as a tech list. As you pointed out, Geoffrey is not a viral agent and must be allowed to speak, fault of which they can claim this list is not democratic. We can answer and we do answer. We are not short of arguments. If you feel Geoffrey has pushed your patience to the edge, then maybe next time I'll take him and he'll be all set. The thing is that some developers just make a living with their jobs, which is great, and their arguments are justified under that perspective. Some others also have a mission. If there's a mission there's a spirit and, trust me, the spirit is perfectly safe. There's no way you can kill a spirit; if ever, it can only die out spontaneously. Any attempt to kill fatally results in strengthening it. I mean, the discussion is so vast, some developers have a philosophy of life and a philosophy of work, some others do not have any philosophy; they live without; they might even not have any books in their homes; they get excited with this, with that; they often have revelations for others; they often work for the mass market or they often work for companies that target the mass market; some companies see the whole of the world's population as mass market and whish it could, or think it should, consume RIA in the same manner and quantity as they consume toilet paper, which, needless to say, is a very noble goal for humanity. SVG has no common goal with those people. But it's also true that SVG desperately needs wide spread, good rendering engines. Maybe the tortoise needs to be kicked harder, one way or another... Domenico > > Hi, Geoffrey- > > You've really pushed my patience to the edge. > > This list is for questions about SVG development. It's not a forum for > you to rant against SVG or promote other technologies. As I said > before, there are constructive ways to have such conversations, but you > are willfully avoiding them. > > Anyone who has truly been reading this list for the past 3 years, 2 > years, 1 year, 6 months, 3 months, or even a single month cannot help > but to see the "SVG is dead" permathread (at least one of which was > started by you), including copious emails regarding the foundering > status of the Adobe plug-in. I would hardly describe the reaction on > this list as "rosy". One need only to search through the archives to > see thread after thread devoted to this. And yet somehow, doomsayers > aside, SVG is still becoming more widely implemented, and those > implementations are steadily improving. > > This list is never going to advocate transition to some other technology > (unless SVG is simply not suitable for the task at hand, as is sometimes > the case). If ever SVG fails, if "the market decides" there is no room > for a cross-platform, open-standards vector graphics language, this list > will simply close. You seem to have already found your next passion, > and if you are not interested in SVG, I suggest this may no longer be > the list for you. > > You consider the time you have spent on SVG wasted; similarly, I > consider the time I have spent reading and replying to your inflammatory > messages a waste of my time. I suspect that you have gotten more out of > learning SVG than the rest of us have gotten from the superficial > contents of your recent messages. I politely asked you to > self-moderate, which you agreed to do; you have not honored your > promise, and I have thus set your posting privileges to "moderated" > status. If you have something constructive to say, I will allow the > post to go through. > > Believe me, I was very reluctant to do this. You are only the 2nd > person I've had to take such measures with (and the first was because of > extremely foul language). But I reviewed your posting history, and > while I do believe that participated in this group in good faith in the > past, this thread does not reflect that good faith. > > I'm sure you're simply venting your frustration at what is admittedly a > slow process (as all open standards are). I think it will ultimately be > worth it, and I find SVG quite usable today. If you don't agree, I wish > you well with whatever technology you think better suits your needs. > > To everyone else, I apologize for taking this action. I truly hate to > be forced to moderate someone, but I feel that this was the only way to > get this list back on track. > > Regards- > -Doug > > Geoffrey Swenson wrote: > > The lack of support in IE, and the fact that each implementation & browser > > that supports SVG has different bugs and flaws that you have to work around, > > different code to load the SVG objects, etc. is why I cannot justify any > > more work in SVG for my projects. > > > > > > > > I want my implementations to be the same regardless of platform. I'm pretty > > sure any movement going on in SVG is too little too late. Even if > > Silverlight is not the way to go, it is going to be something else. > > > > > > > > I built a SVG project and put several months of work into it before it > > occurred to me that the Adobe SVG plugin had not been updated for years - > > meaning Adobe had pretty much abandoned it. You would have never guessed > > this from the dialog here on this list. The sky is blue, everything is rosy; > > there are no problems with SVG. Nothing to see here. > > > > > > Adobe could rectify the lack of SVG support in IE7 quite easily by updating > > the plugin, but they obviously prefer not to advance this technology any > > further. > > > > > > > > And then there is the lousy state of all of the open source SVG efforts that > > are mostly way behind the antique Adobe plugin. At the current rate of > > progress it will be at least two more years before all of the various > > browsers will have most of the SVG features working in a consistent manner. > > > > > > > > I am a little disconcerted that we are not going to get any help from this > > list to migrate to whatever succeeds SVG. There is nothing wrong with the > > list evolving along with the technology. For example, DSLreports becomes > > BroadbandReports and keeps on helping people with broadband issues rather > > than staying stuck on one small thing. > > > > > > > > The next wave of the internet will be come from some sort of new graphical > > rendering language. I had hoped it would be SVG, but it looks dead. Please > > don't shoot the messengers. > > > > > > > > In any case I am sick and tired of the limitations of HTML, shackled by > > glacially slow standards progress and reliance on inefficient bitmapped > > graphics. Something more is needed. > > > ----- To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership" ---- Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! 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