I would expect that the average symfony user would have already some experience with templating languages (probably mostly smarty). I do not think that a developer who develops single PHP pages would ever want to switch to symfony, symfony is a framework for quite experienced developers (have you ever seen a question about PHP frameworks in a newbie forum?). And if you know one templating system, others are quite easy to learn, this would not raise the bar much. And I too think that the default twig templating helps less experienced developers to create better code (no logic in templates).
my 0.02 € (if we add up all those cents in this discussion, someone will get rich :-D ) Am 24.09.2010 19:41, schrieb Jonathan Wage: > Hi, > > After thinking a bit about it. I think it is not such a good idea for > Symfony in the long term. > > One of the great things about PHP and Symfony is that the scope it can > handle is so wide. It can handle very small and quick applications, but > it can also be used to build robust, powerful, maintainable web > applications. I think by default the framework should cater to the new > developers and keep the bar as low as possible. If we mandate too much > on by default then the bar is raised quite high to get started with Symfony. > > I think the voting statistics are skewed here because the people who > want to see this on by default, are the more seasoned developers that > are building much larger web applications and are more likely to be > involved with the community and development mailing lists. > > We have a large demographic of developers and we should not forgot about > that. Also, it is so easy to turn on twig yourself that it does not make > sense to make it on by default. > > Just my 2c. > > - Jon > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Jordi Boggiano <j.boggi...@seld.be > <mailto:j.boggi...@seld.be>> wrote: > > Heya, > > I would like to start a discussion on whether we should adopt Twig as > the *default* Renderer for Symfony2 instead of PHP templates. > > My view of it is this: > > - PHP templates are a great default since PHP is obviously always there, > but Twig seems to have become a first class citizen already, so it > wouldn't be too problematic, and it can always be removed if someone > doesn't like it. > > - In my experience PHP templates encourage not-so-MVC-conscious > developers to put too much logic in their views, because it's very easy > to do so. Twig provides a context switch that help people make a > distinction, and also makes it harder/impossible to code complex logic > in templates. > > - Twig with the custom tokens provides much more fluent and clean > interfaces to the template helpers, not to mention shorter. e.g.: > > > {% route 'blog_post' with ['id': post.id <http://post.id>] %} > > > > <?php echo $view['router']->generate('blog_post', array('id' => > $post->id)) ?> > > - The Twig syntax with dots to access properties and all looks and feels > like javascript, which imo is great for frontend developers to be sort > of in the same environment no matter if they work in templates or in js > code. > > - On the downside, I guess Twig has a bit of a learning curve, but then > again people must learn the symfony "keywords" anyways, like > $view['router'], that aren't especially obvious to a non-sf developer. > So it's not like PHP templates are completely straightforward, and Twig > syntax is quite simple and well documented. > > Thoughts? > > Cheers > > -- > Jordi Boggiano > @seldaek :: http://seld.be/ > > -- > If you want to report a vulnerability issue on symfony, please send > it to security at symfony-project.com <http://symfony-project.com> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "symfony developers" group. > To post to this group, send email to symfony-devs@googlegroups.com > <mailto:symfony-devs@googlegroups.com> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > symfony-devs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:symfony-devs%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/symfony-devs?hl=en > > > > > -- > Jonathan H. Wage > http://www.twitter.com/jwage > > -- > If you want to report a vulnerability issue on symfony, please send it > to security at symfony-project.com > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "symfony developers" group. > To post to this group, send email to symfony-devs@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > symfony-devs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/symfony-devs?hl=en -- If you want to report a vulnerability issue on symfony, please send it to security at symfony-project.com You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "symfony developers" group. To post to this group, send email to symfony-devs@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to symfony-devs+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/symfony-devs?hl=en
