Farrukh, The kind of re-use that you are talking about, from one project to the next, should be done with a plugin. It is the plugins that allow you to "putting the schema model n peer classes in one folder so all one would need is to copy the folder n customize it ."
On Sep 23, 9:51 am, Farrukh Abbas <[email protected]> wrote: > It has become a long thread ... As some one said before that > noframework is perfect... But I guess what matters is how well does a > framework hide all the complexitites of creating scalable web apps n > let's the developer focus on the solution n business logic > suberbly ... Yes it does take time to learn how to do it the "right" > way according to the rules the framework has put forth but if one > sticks to one version I guess there won't be that much of learning ... > Any how I would like to share my 50 cents of experience with symfony n > what I would like it to have... > > I have developed 3 to 4 apps on symfony n one thing I find my self > doing is use some module developed for on app into another which > ofcourse is possible but what do u guys think about putting the schema > model n peer classes in one folder so all one would need is to copy > the folder n customize it ... It's just n idea... So would like to > know the drawebacks n strenghts of doing so... For that to be possible > the model has to be stand alone... Feel free to critizie constructively > > -- > Kind regards > Farrukh Abbas > > On 23 Sep 2009, at 15:37, Alexandru-Emil Lupu <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Ghost3D, > > Sincerely, i thought that symfony is hard as well in the begining, > > but, there are some things that i haven't saw in other php > > frameworks, like the admin generator or the crud. Maybe, just > > because in the last period i am using just Django and Symfony in my > > projects. > > If you think that the symfony does not follow the best practices, > > then you are free to share with us what are the problems that you > > found on the system (allready done that). Instead of criticize so > > much the framework itself, you might come with some improvements of > > the generated code that "follows the best practices". > > > Yeah ... i know that sometimes the symfony generated does not do > > what i want to do, so i am starting to extend it. For example, on > > some objects i am hydrating manually the foreign objects, something > > like ROR way... > > $user = MyUser::find($criteria, array > > ('ban_status','profile','last_login')) and so on ... > > > AFAIK, not even a framework is able to read the developer's mind. > > Some of them have made compromises renouncing to complexity for the > > simplicity sake, other are maybe far too complex than they should. > > > i propose you something... make a blog application (no plugins > > allowed) using symfony, yii, code igniter, cake PHP and tell us what > > were your work time for each one of the implementation. The > > applications should have: i18n support, form validation, comment > > management, and also an admin interface for the posts, a tagging > > system, and tests. > > After that add 2 majour database modifications and see what is the > > framework that helps you the most in this case. > > > Of course. The logic is not to learn all the framewors, but to see > > the development time for each one of it. Afterall we all work with > > tight deadlines for our customers. > > As someone said earlier: if you need to modify 90% of the generated > > code, either you don't do it right, either symfony is not for you. > > > Alecs > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Phil Moorhouse > > <[email protected] > > > wrote: > > > Ghost3D, > > > Firstly, the reason for the move to OO forms has already been covered > > - it's to promote re-use and greater flexibility. This unavoidably > > comes with the cost of increased complexity, and I think from the > > answers above most people here are willing to make that trade-off. > > > Secondly, Symfony is not meant to be an application generator in the > > way that Drupal or Joomla will build most of your app for you. It's a > > foundation and structure for you to build your app on top of. The > > admin generator can quickly give you a simple back-end and in some > > cases people have bent and shaped it to make entire sites, but there > > is no explicit claim that you can wave a magic wand and Symfony will > > write your entire codebase. If you want that then Symfony is not for > > you. > > > Thirdly, the directory structure is not complex - it follows a > > convention that is well named and repeated throughout the framework, > > which makes naming decisions and finding old code easy. The empty > > classes are there so that you can extend the base classes without > > changing them, which means you can update your Symfony version or > > rebuild your model without fear of overwriting your own custom code. > > The CRUD is a quickly producible (and completely optional) starting > > point for you to modify, and that's all it's meant to be. The > > configuration has well chosen defaults from the start - the only thing > > you need to provide to get an app up and running are your database > > connection details, so it's hardly "painstaking". > > > You seem to be of the impression all frameworks should fulfil the same > > needs and take the same approach. If you have a preferred approach, > > then use a framework that implements it, there is no point in arguing > > that Symfony does things the wrong way. > > > Phil > > > lazymanc on #symfony / #symfony-off > > > On Sep 23, 12:29 pm, bghost <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Fabien, > > > > You say that I write nonsense and stupid e-mails? Well, seems that > > > you did not understand me. So, I'll be here a little more detailed > > and > > > specific: > > > > First: > > > > No offense Fabien, this is a well-meaning criticism. I know that you > > > invested so much effort into Symfony. However, you are a little > > > exaggerated forcing object model and object-oriented programming > > > where it is necessary - and where it is not (as is the case with > > WEB > > > Forms), in the language which already has a very bad and sloppy > > > object model. So you complicate some tasks in the Symfony > > > framework that already was simple and good. > > > > Second: > > > > Almost 90% of the code that generates the Symfony framework > > > developer need to modify or re-write, because the generated > > > code "does not follow best practice" (per your words) in > > programming. > > > What is the point and what the benefits of the code generated if 90% > > > of the code must be re-written on the completely different way? > > > > Third: > > > > The result of all this is a complex directory structure, many empty > > > classes that only contain a skeleton and just inherits one of the > > base > > > classes, and finally the CRUD code that always must be re-written. > > > And to get all that, the programmer must learn a bunch of different > > > configuration and command line options. > > > And when a programmer, after a painstaking setup and configuration > > > of various options and parameters, finally gets the generated code, > > > he must re-write 90% of the generated code. > > > > WBR, > > > Ghost3D > > > > On Sep 23, 9:19 am, Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony- > > > > project.com> wrote: > > > > Ok, I think we get the point. No need to be rude. Please, go > > away, use > > > > whatever framework you want, and stop writing nonsense emails. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Fabien > > > > > -- > > > > Fabien Potencier > > > > Sensio CEO - symfony lead developer > > > > sensiolabs.com | symfony-project.org | fabien.potencier.org > > > > Tél: +33 1 40 99 80 80 > > > > > bghost wrote: > > > > > As I said at the beginning: > > > > > > Symfony has become too complicated. Also, Symfony folder > > structure > > > > > has become too complicated. Definitely, the learning of > > principles on > > > > > which Symfony working is painful and unprofitable. If you > > really want > > > > > to > > > > > see, which means fast, easy and effective PHP framework, then > > take a > > > > > look on the following link: > > > > > >http://www.yiiframework.com/ > > > > > > WBR, > > > > > Ghost3D > > > > > > On Sep 21, 3:31 pm, Sid Bachtiar <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> XD > > > > > >> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:28 AM, dziobacz > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>> I would like to say that Symfony is very, very good and future > > > > >>> framework. Thx Symfony I could learn very fast ASP.NET MVC > > (not > > > > >>> ASP.NET but ASP.NET MVC) - these two frameworks have got > > many similar > > > > >>> things. > > > > >>> While Zend Framework is far, far away Symfony and ASP.NET > > MVS. In Zend > > > > >>> you must almost everything creat by yourself !! For example > > you must > > > > >>> modify Bootstrap file and write there strange code to enable > > > > >>> layout !!! Symfony is the best !! :) > > > > >>> On 21 Wrz, 10:58, CaffeineInc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>> I think symfony is brilliant, If you need a framework which > > can scale > > > > >>>> to enterprise level websites with fast prototyping and a > > flexible ORM, > > > > >>>> then you don't need anything else. If you think it's > > complicated, then > > > > >>>> maybe you're in the wrong place. > > > > >>>> If you want to build a small website with everything pre- > > configured, > > > > >>>> I'd probably stick with something like SilverStripe. > > > > >>>> P.s slagging off the framework in 2-3 lines is not very > > constructive > > > > >>>> for the users forum. > > > > >>>> On Sep 18, 6:09 pm, bghost <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>> No, the crux of what I wanted to say is: > > > > >>>>> Users should not spend more time to learn how some Web > > Framework > > > > >>>>> works but they need to learn a programming language. Any > > framework > > > > >>>>> should be only an auxiliary tool, not an entire small > > science. > > > > >>>>> So, simplicity and speed should be paramount. > > > > >>>>> WBR, > > > > >>>>> Ghost3D > > > > >>>>> On Sep 18, 5:30 pm, Sid Ferreira <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >>>>>> The most easy thing to understand is something that > > doesn't need > > > > >>>>>> documentation and I > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "symfony users" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/symfony-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
