On 10 October 2013 15:28, fly <[email protected]> wrote: > +1 for a separate tag and deprecating bicycle=dismount
To make the case for this clearer, consider the following. There are four combinations of access for bicycles and cyclists, depending on whether you are allowed to cycle and/or allowed to push a bike: (a) Cycling and pushing both allowed (b) Cycling allowed, but pushing not allowed (c) Cycling not allowed, but pushing is allowed (d) Neither cycling nor pushing allowed I beleive all of these combinations are possible in real life. In the UK (a) would be a normal cycleway that's shared with pedestrians, (b) could occur on a cycleway that's only for cyclists (i.e. no pedestrians allowed), (c) would be the case of (e.g.) a narrow bridge on a cycle route, where "dismount" signs are shown, or a typical pedestrian shopping street with "no cycling" signs, and (d) would be an area/route explicitly signed as e.g. "no bicycles not even pushed" (Oxford University Parks used to be like this until a couple of years ago). Clearly if you are travelling with a bike you would want to distinguish between at least (a)/(b) vs. (c) vs. (d), to determine where you can go with your bike and at what pace. Currently the tagging used is bicycle=yes/no/dismount. The problem with this is that while bicyle=dismount unambiguously indicates (c), people have used bicycle=no for both (c) and (d) -- interpreting it as either "no cycling" or "no bicycles". Also (although less importantly) using bicycle=yes offers no way to explicitly distinguish between cases (a) and (b). I would therefore propose a new access tag be introduced to capture information about whether pushing a bike is allowed. I'll call this bicycle_pushed for now, but the actual name is something that can be discussed and agreed upon later. With this tag and the existing bicycle=* access tag (whose values are now taken, as I believe was originally intended, to apply to 'cycling' rather than 'bicycles'), it is now possible to unambiguously distingiush between the four cases above: (a) bicycle=yes + bicycle_pushed=yes (b) bicycle=yes + bicycle_pushed=no (c) bicycle=no + bicycle_pushed=yes (d) bicycle=no + bicycle_pushed=no bicycle=dismount is then deprecated, and the same information captured by using bicycle=no + bicycle_pushed=yes (i.e. no cycling, but you can push your bike). For actual tagging use, It might be worth considering that whether, in the absense of a bicycle_pushed tag, the presense of foot=yes implies you can push a bicycle on that route -- which is probably a sensible default in most of the world. Although we would have to think carefully about how to handle the case of people who have previously tagged bicycle=no to indicate case (d). Robert. _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
