Thanks for writing this summary! It's short, but made me realize a few
fundamental points:

W dniu 11.03.2018 o 01:31, Matthijs Melissen pisze:

> Just something I'd like to clarify: many of you seem to assume this
> introduces a new tagging paradigm. The opposite is true: the proposal
> uses a tagging scheme that is already used in about 90 percent of the
> countries, and the retagging request only concerns the exceptions. You
> might or might not agree with this tagging scheme, but it is the way
> things are currently done in most countries.

1. I think it's also important from the consistency point of view. If we
really don't want to add another 10% for completeness, maybe we should
remove the current 90% to avoid duplication?

2. Here I see also a general problem of "low zoom levels" (read - global

When we have thousands of roads, we might have specific regional
definitions and conventions - it's not comfortable and violates
consistency, but allows us to cover world diversity. It would be hard to
just collect them all and find one template.

But when talking about country (maritime) borders, we have only about a
dozen of them and it's perfectly achievable to coin the global rules.
It's even favorable - if we tag a hundred of roads bad, it's not that
visible, but with just one exception of what maritime border means for
one person, we have a flawed data set and silly visualization of the world:

I understand that growing from very local London-based project results
in a certain way of thinking about data, which mostly works good, but we
have reached the point where some global issues have appeared and we
should address them accordingly.

> I would also like to point out that other data consumers do rely on
> the presence of admin_level on boundary ways too.

3. The OSM community (as a whole) is blinded by the sound of term
"tagging for rendering". I think it gave rendering pretty bad publicity,
while in fact this is a tagging (!) problem and is about making up false
data for some purpose. The most common case seems to be making the data
to look on the particular map as the mappers like it to have, but still
it doesn't make rendering something bad.

4. While osm-carto is just one renderer of OSM data, it is the one I'm
aware of which gives any feedback about rendering problems. More than
this: IIRC, this is also the only one consumer project which gives the
feedback to data community. I treat it as a valuable source of
information what could be missing or broken with our data models. After
all rendering maps is a pretty common way of consuming GIS data.

Of course, as a member of osm-carto team and reporter of such problems I
may be not objective, but this is what I believe and I don't feel more
like a "map designer" than OSM community member.

"My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple]

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