On 21/12/19 19:49, Francesco Ansanelli wrote:
Dear Volker,
I saw that someone went ahead and changed the wiki again:
Use roundtrip=yes to indicate that start and end of a route are at the
same location.
I think this new definition matches your idea of roundtrip and it's
fine for both definitions.
My last offer is to abandon the closed_loop tag in favour of:
roundtrip:type=linear|circular
Do you agree?
No.
"Type" means nothing. Perhaps roundtrip:route=*???
As for the values .. you will need to define them!
'My' local bus route starts off with ways that are used both directions
.. and then separates into a loop where the segments are only used in
one direction.
I could imaging routes that have several loops used in one direction
and then ways that are used in both directions .. arrr there is another
route that does that ...
So what values will there be to cover complex cases???
Francesco
Il ven 20 dic 2019, 22:45 Volker Schmidt <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> ha scritto:
Please revert the roundtrip wiki change, but let's put any other
wiki-changes on halt for a moment.
What we need to do is to find out how the roundtrip tag is being
used (the wiki is suposed to document the actual use, not what the
use should be) and in particular if there is a more-than sporadic
use of roundtrip=yes|no for anything else than loop=yes|no.
It's difficult to get reliable quantitative results, but:
A fast overpass turbo wizard query
"type:relation and route=bicycle and roundtrip=yes in
Italy|France|England|USA|Bayern"
resulted in
Italy: 58 lines with at best a handful of them not closed loops
France: 358 lines with maybe 10 non-loops
England: 25 lines, all loops.
USA: 29, about 6 non-loops
Bavaria 213, did not find any non-loops
For me this is a strong indication that the large majority of all
cycle route relations in these countries that have a roundrip=yes
are in fact loops and that that this is the de-facto use of the tag.
I think this is a strong case against any change.
Taginfo points in the same direction
12665 roundtrip=no
21774 roundtrip=yes
42 closed_loop=yes
no closed_loop=no
Volker
On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 18:17, Francesco Ansanelli
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
In my opinion the options are:
- deprecate roundtrip in favour of 2 tags with a generally
agreed naming convention (best at this point)
- keep roundtrip and closed_loop with the wiki definition I
did change (relations must be updated accordingly)
I read many of you asked a revert, I just want to point out
that is not a resolution because tag is currently messed up
Il ven 20 dic 2019, 15:08 Steve Doerr <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> ha scritto:
On 19/12/2019 22:48, Phake Nick wrote:
Merriam Webster and some other resources you have quoted
are dictionary for American English, not the variant of
English used by OSM. Posts by original author of the
topic on the wiki talk page have explained the meaning of
the term in British English.
The OED definitions read as follows:
Originally U.S.
A. n.
1.
a. A journey to a place and back again, along the
same route; (also) a journey to one or more places and
back again which does not cover the same ground twice,
a circular tour or trip.
b. Baseball. A home run. Cf. round-tripper n. 2.
2. In extended use and figurative, esp. (Mining and
Oil Industry) an act of withdrawing and replacing a
drill pipe.
3. Stock Market (originally U.S.). The action or an
instance of buying and selling the same stock,
commodity, etc., often simultaneously. Cf. round turn
n. 4.
B. adj. (attributive). Chiefly North American.
1. Of or relating to a round trip (in various
senses). Cf. return n. Compounds 1.
2. That makes or has made a round trip (literal and
figurative).
C. adv. Chiefly North American.
As a round trip; by travelling to a place and back
again.
Note the frequent references to 'U.S.' and 'North
American'. It's an American phrase, though now widely
adopted in the UK.
--
Steve
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