Hey Matthew,
I think the distinction is inherited from the distinction between
highway=service and highway=residential. A "regular" driveway shouldn't
be a residential road, and a narrow, but otherwise unremarkable
residential road doesn't become a service road.
I do feel as though there is some overlap between highway=residential
and highway=service as they are used. I've seen some residential roads
tagged as service roads because they are "less important" or narrower
than surrounding roads; possibly in order to affect the rendering. If a
residential road is narrow enough though, it can be tagged as alley.
If I had to try and define the difference, it'd probably be based on
whether the road is accessing a "single property" or not. The wiki
definition of "highway=service" is for access roads to a building,
servo, beach, campsite, industrial estate, business park, etc. This
would suggest that it is appropriate for roads that access a large
property with multiple tenants, which could be analogous to a subdivided
parcel of land with multiple units. Having a street name should
generally be the giveaway, some googling also suggests that the lack of
footpaths, streetlights, etc are other common features.
Ultimately though it's subjective, and Seb's examples are probably three
perfect examples of edge cases.
Example 1 (818426144): Agree that highway=residential is not appropriate
here. It looks like a driveway from the road functions, but the actual
properties seem to access from shared driveways branched off of the main
way: personally I'd say highway=service with five pups gems branching
off, but I wouldn't "correct" the main branch if it had been tagged as a
pipe stem as well. It does happen to be very long, though: if it was
given a gazetted name, with each house getting renumbered accordingly, I
think residential would be a justifiable alternative. The way north of
this (181739516) is an example of just that: the mapper has gone with a
plain highway=service, but residential would have been my first choice.
The second example, Tilbavale Close, doesn't look like a driveway, has
individually numbered properties, and (for lack of a more scientific
word) doesn't "feel" like a driveway. It's a narrow residential street.
The funny spurs coming off the Close (184844140), even though they are
part of the gazetted roadway, do look like shared driveways.
The last example (Cassugan Court) looks like like a driveway from the
road, but someone has gone and gazetted a name and numbered the
properties with it. Each property does have their own driveway branching
off of it, though, so I'd say this looks like the most "driveway-ish" a
road could be while still being highway=residential. If I came across
this with a plain highway=service tag though, I'm not sure I'd correct
it.
It might be easier to define a pipe stem/shared driveway by what it
isn't: it isn't a through road, it isn't any narrow residential road, it
isn't any "short" residential road, etc…
Dian
On 2022-03-16 11:17, Matthew Seale wrote:
So what then distinguishes highway=residential from a shared driveway
in Sebastian's 3 examples?
* The first way 818426144 is an unnamed shared service road, so seems
to neatly fit the pipestem example as explained. The addresses in this
style of development are likely to be unit numbers, otherwise sharing a
shared main road street addresss.
* The second way 184844142 and the third way 429541974 are named roads
that appear as named roads on the JOSM Vicmap road network layer. The
addresses in these instances will most likely use that street name as
their address, not the next main road they connect to. So these don't
appear to neatly fit the concept of a shared driveway to my thinking.
Otherwise taken to it's extreme interpretation there would be a large
number of highway=residential that, due to being in privately developed
areas, could be change to pipestem. I don't think that is the intent.
Thoughts?
Matthew
On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 9:42 AM Dian Ågesson <m...@diacritic.xyz> wrote:
Interesting discussion; it does seem like the consensus is landing on
the side of service=pipestem.
There are 668 instances of driveway=pipestem in Australia:
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1gU6, but there is 0 instances of
service=pipestem: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1gUd. However, it seems
as though I have had a disproportionate influence (509 of
driveway=pipestem were last edited by me
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1gUf)
I don't have a strong preference either way, so I'm happy to move over
to the service=pipestem structure (possibly through bulk edit?)
Dian
On 2022-03-16 08:53, Andrew Harvey wrote:
In the global community it's still disputed, see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems
and my proposal to have this as an editor preset
https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema/pull/239 where the
tagging question is still not resolved.
I've actually come around to the idea that service=pipstem is better,
rational being that service=driveway is very clearly defined on the
wiki as a non-shared driveway leading to a single residence. I think
it's best we leave that intact and have a sibling tag service=pipestem
for shared driveways. Otherwise you'll need to redefine
service=driveway to be any type of shared or non-shared driveway and
add a new tag driveway=single to most existing highway=service.
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 at 08:10, Tom Brennan <webs...@ozultimate.com>
wrote: I think I started the last discussion on this, so I'll wade in!
Driveways are a bit of a nightmare - there are lots that don't fit
neatly into one bucket or another.
We did agree that service=driveway, driveway=pipestem was better than
service=pipestem.
It's probably 6 of one, half a dozen of the other as to whether the
ones
below are all shared driveways. Some could equally be classified as
private residential roads.
But they could all do with a clean up, one way or the other!
cheers
Tom
----
Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com
On 15/03/2022 9:22 pm, Dian Ågesson wrote:
Hi Seb!
The last time this came up on the mailing list
(https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2021-September/015014.html)
most people seemed to approve of the following mapping:
highway=service
service=driveway
driveway=pipestem
Dian
On 2022-03-15 20:16, Sebastian Azagra via Talk-au wrote:
Hi all,
Had a query regarding the mapping of driveways / shared driveways as
there seems to be quite a number of different approaches in the data.
Below are three examples of similar ways that have different tags
used
in each instance.
Highway=service
Service= driveway
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/818426144
Highway=Residential
Service= driveway
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/184844142#map=18/-38.00126/145.27585
Highway=residential
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/429541974
Reading the OSM wiki, none of these ways are correctly mapped as they
are all shared driveways that leads from a road. my understanding
that
they need to be tagged as follows:
Highway=service
Service= Pipestem
Would be interested in knowing your thoughts.
regards,
Sebastian
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