On 2014-09-19 15:40, Johan C wrote : > <also for the link your page explaining connectivity:lane. I had not > heard about that one before. > .. > <What I mean with splitting the outgoing road, is how far do we want > the destination to extend: til the next crossing, even when that is > ... > <So you won't add lanes:destination before the crossing ? (just to > make sure) > ... Please make correct quoting. I never said that. > <What I meant is that Google is only allowed to copyright artwork, not > facts ...> > The DWG is clear on using contents of Google's > photos: > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2014-April/007750.html. > Luckily, However, Mapillary can be > used: http://www.mapillary.com/osm.html. All it takes for Google > (being the nice company they are) is start using the same words: For > the purpose of contributing metadata to OpenStreetMap, we allow anyone > to derive metadata from our photos. Please understand that I do not speak about what Google says but that I explain that they are not (legally) allowed to copyright facts. For example, they cannot prevent a map showing a 60 km/h limit on some road because they published a photograph of a road sign on it. If you believe they can, "the DWG is not as clear" as you say.
André. > > Cheers, Johan > > 2014-09-12 15:28 GMT+02:00 André Pirard <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>: > > On 2014-09-11 00:27, Johan C wrote : >> Hi André >> >> <OSM GPS routers use destination >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination>=* not to >> compute the routes, they can do without, but to know what the >> drivers see on the signs in order to use the same information in >> spoken instructions> >> >> That's correct >> >> <Shouldn't the same ref=* >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> as of the motorway >> be used on all highway >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=motorway_link >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_link>?> >> >> *If the motorway link has these signs*, they can be used. >> >> *<there is no name to use* for a GPS to call a motorway entrance.> >> >> The OSM situation should *reflect current signage*: if there are >> no signs, the destination tag should not be used > So, I had correctly understood despite that, as unfortunately > often the case, the key definition is very badly stated (the proof > of that is that the French and German translators have got it and > translated totally wrong). So, I made the following change to the > wiki: > Old: >> The key *destination* describes the destination of the way by >> using the name of the city the way is heading to, which is >> explicitly indicated in a signpost or similiar on the ground. > New: >> So that GPS-like software can refer to road signs that the driver >> actually sees, the key *destination*=* describes the contents of >> signposts or ground writing indicating the names of the cities >> that the way on which the key is tagged is leading to. > It is worth spending time to precisely write definitions. > It avoids many map mistakes needing much more time to fix and > makes a much better OSM. >> <I'm not sure you can copy the pictures> >> >> Google is a nice company, but they are not open. Their terms >> prohibit copying contents pictures. But all it takes to get lane >> assistant in Belgium is a few people who access motorways every >> now and then taking pictures of the signs. > What I meant is that Google is only allowed to copyright artwork, > not facts nor even some pictures or parts thereof representing > facts like road signs. I don't see why you need copying pictures > to build destination tags. > > Cheers, > > André. > > >> >> Cheers, Johan >> >> >> >> 2014-09-10 23:30 GMT+02:00 André Pirard <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>>: >> >> On 2014-09-09 22:14, Johan C wrote : >>> In Nederland heb ik de snelwegen op veel plaatsen voorzien >>> van bestemmingen. Als bijrijder ben ik in de gelegenheid >>> geweest om afgelopen maand de bebording op de route >>> Breda-Antwerpen-Gent-Kortrijk-Lille vice versa te >>> fotograferen. Die wil ik graag op de manier zoals ik die in >>> Nederland heb getagd gaan taggen. Dat houdt het volgende in: >>>> In the Netherlands I have the highways in many places >>>> equipped destinations. As a passenger, I had the >>>> opportunity to be on the route >>>> Breda-Antwerp-Ghent-Kortrijk-Lille to photograph. Past >>>> month the boarding vice versa I would like the way I tagged >>>> in the Netherlands go tag them. That means the following: >>> - invoeren destination details conform de werkwijze >>> op >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details, >>> inclusief het invoeren van het afritnummer met de tag >>> junction:ref >>>> - Enter destination details according to the procedure on >>>> >>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details, >>>> including entering the exit number junction with the tag: ref >>> >>> - het positioneren van de motorway_junction >>> conform >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_exit, >>> oftewel juist voor de doorgetrokken streep >>>> - het positioneren van de motorway_junction >>>> conform >>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_exit, >>>> oftewel juist voor de doorgetrokken streep >>> >>> Het mooie van het toevoegen van de destinations is dat dit >>> een stap is om een rijstrookassistent te krijgen in OSM. >>> Mijn op OSM gebaaseerde Garmin is al in staat om de >>> bestemmingen niet alleen weer te geven maar ook uit te >>> spreken, wat erg handig is in drukke verkeerssituaties. >>> Diverse andere OSM routeringsprogramma's ondersteunen de >>> bestemmingen eveneens. >>> >>> Ik wil graag meehelpen om ook andere Belgische snelwegen te >>> voorzien van de bestemmingen, maar op sommige Belgische >>> snelwegen kom ik erg weinig tot nooit. Zouden jullie kunnen >>> helpen door het nemen van foto's van de bebording cq het >>> opnemen van ritten op de snelwegen met een dashcam? >>>> The beauty of adding destinations is that this is a step to >>>> get into OSM. Lane guidance My OFM gebaaseerde Garmin has >>>> been able to show the destinations not only weather but >>>> also to speak, which is very convenient in traffic >>>> situations. Various other OSM routing programs also support >>>> the destinations. >>>> >>>> I would like to also help provide the destinations, other >>>> Belgian motorways but some Belgian highways I get very >>>> little or never. Could you help by taking pictures of the >>>> signage or the inclusion of journeys on motorways with a >>>> dashcam? >> Hi Johan, >> >> As I understand it (1) OSM GPS routers use destination >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination>=* not to >> compute the routes, they can do without, but to know what >> the drivers see on the signs in order to use the same >> information in spoken instructions (e. g. call a lane by its >> destination if possible). Similarly for ref=* >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> and name >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=*. >> >> I did not understand every word you wrote, but it looks like >> you want the content of the Destination signposting. They >> are all here on Google Street View >> <https://maps.google.be/maps?>. I'm not sure you can copy >> the pictures, but pictures is not what is necessary for OSM: >> what is written on the road signs is legal information and >> cannot be copyrighted. >> >> My survey. >> >> On E25. >> destination >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination>=* is not >> usedanywhere and ref=* >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> is *not used* >> onhighway >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=motorway_link >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_link>. >> Hence, *there is no name to use* for a GPS to call a motorway >> entrance. >> For motorway exits, such a ref is useless but ref=* >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> is used >> all-right on highway >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=motorway_junction >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_junction>. >> >> Shouldn't the same ref=* >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> as of the >> motorway be used on allhighway >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=motorway_link >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_link>? >> >> >> >> On other major highways. >> name <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=* is used >> but the driver sees no (real) signs (plates) for it. >> ref=* <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> is almost >> always present but the road sign (e.g. N30) is sometimes >> missing on the ground, which is annoying for the driver in a >> roundabout or at the fork to two main directions. >> >> I tried to contact the MET to report a few such cases, but >> they did not reply. >> *Does anyone know* how to signal the MET their mistakes or >> should we tag for the minister? >> >> On 2014-09-10 10:12, Sander Deryckere wrote : >>> >>> destination:lanes=Brno;Poysdorf;Mistelbach|Brno;Poysdorf;Mistelbach;Graz;Wien|Graz;Wien >>> destination:ref:lanes=A5|A5;S1;A2|S1;A2 >>> destination:country:lanes=CZ|CZ;SK;H;SLO;I|SK;H;SLO;I >>> destination:symbol:lanes=|airport|airport >>> >>> Are we really trying to hang ourselves? >> >> Let us think before such an extreme outcome :-) >> >> I'm not a lanes specialist, but it seems to me that lane >> drawing topology is enough for routing software to know and >> tell the driver which of the lanes (n°1, n°2, n°3) to take to >> get to another lane ahead. >> So, the question is: what should the GPS tell the driver >> (click, choose language, click loudspeaker): >> >> * That ??? >> >> <https://translate.google.be/?#en/nl/Take%20a%20lane%20to%0AGraz%3BWien%3B%0AS1%3BA2%3B%0ACzechoslovakia%3BHungary%3BSlovenia%3BItaly%3B%0Aairport%0A%0A.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%0A%0ATake%20a%20lane%20to%0ABrno%3BPoysdorf%3BMistelbach%3B%0AA5%3B%0ACzechoslovakia%3B> >> * or this ??? >> >> <https://translate.google.be/?#en/nl/Take%20a%20lane%20to%20S1%0A%0A.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%0A%0ATake%20a%20lane%20to%20A5> >> >> Is it really necessary to make a mess by trying to >> spell/translate every place in/to every language (2)? >> Isn't it wiser to use only the (ref) numbering system devised >> and used for everybody's convenience? >> That's including OSM. >> I think that just the destination:ref is necessary, and only >> if it cannot be derived from topology. >> The names on the signs are for those who drive without GPS >> and as a reassuring double check. >> Or in the rare cases there would be no refs. >> >>> Anyway, that said, I'll never map anything with the :lanes >>> extension myself, nor will I edit any such tag, but I you're >>> willing to go through that painful process, I won't stop you. >>> >>> (oh, and if you want cooperation for all Belgian highways, >>> better also put your message in English or French). >> It worked ;-) >> >> (1) they can do without them. This is unfortunately badly >> explained once again. >> (2) I usually listen to Osmand in English. >> Easier to understand (must be my ear too) and sounding like >> navigating to the moon (add beeps). >> But the real fun is trying to understand French names >> pronounced à la English !!! :-) >> >> André. >> >> >> * Dutch - detected >> * English >> * French >> * Russian >> >> * English >> * French >> * Russian >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-be mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-be mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
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