2009/11/14 Peter Miller <[email protected]> > > On 13 Nov 2009, at 18:59, Jozef Riha wrote: > > > hello all, > > > > i posted the latter text into t...@osm today but then someone > > suggested i should better ask here. so, the post goes like this: > > > > thank you for your understanding, > > > > joe > > > > -- begin -- > > hello all, > > > > i'd like to review/finish mapping of bus/tram network during my stay > > in bern (ch) and do this right so that no time is wasted fixing my > > mistakes. i read through wiki pages but there're still some points > > open. for my examples to be more explanatory please open the following > > osm file which i'll be referring to. the download url is > > http://nic-nac-project.org/~jose1711/donotdelete/bus_route.osm<http://nic-nac-project.org/%7Ejose1711/donotdelete/bus_route.osm> > > > > i consider bus 1 route to be the correct way of entering a simple > > route. backward/forward rules are based on the way's orientation, not > > Terminus A -> Terminus B or vice versa orientation just as the wiki > > says. what to do though when it's not really clear what way does the > > bus stop belong to like in bus route 2? how do i know if it's forward > > or backward role i should use when i don't know to which way the bus > > stop is connected. consider that i may not be able to change > > orientation (situation: oneway for cars, buses can drive both > > directions). also, does the ways (segments) in relation need to be > > ordered or this is mandatory for bus stops only? > > Welcome! > > I will answer from my perspective (note that I haven't opened your OSM > file as I lack the skills to deal with it) > > Ways can be added to the relation in any order. > > Ways that are only used in one direction should be added with a role > of 'forwards' or 'backwards' as appropriate in relation to the way on > which vehicles run along the way.
Note that the correct terms (or at least the ones specified in the wiki, and those I use) are "forward" and "backward". No "s". > If vehicles run in both directions > for the route then leave the role blank. If they only run in the same > direction that the way is oriented then the role should be 'forwards'. > If it goes the other way it should be backwards. Personally I normally > turn ways around if possible so that the buses go 'forwards' where > possible for convenience - As you say, you have to be careful about > doing this and should avoid turning ways round it if there are any > orientation-specific tags on the way such as one-way and that it when > you use backwards. > There is a proposal for contraflow bus lanes somewhere that helps here. I think it's that the tagging for the way should include "bus=opposite_lane" (like for some ways, we have "bicycle=opposite_lane"). Even without using this, you can still indicate that buses go both ways along a one-way street by adding the bus route relation without a role specified. Unfortunately, some editors have added route relations and assumed that if a street is one-way, and buses/trams/whatever only travel the same way as normal traffic, then "forward" is not required. It is! > > I have not been adding bus stops to the routes, however it is not > really possibly to add the stops 'in order' since there are likely to > be a number of different variants for the route (in both directions, > short running and deviations off the main route for special reasons - > market days, end of school day etc). I suggest that they can be added > in any order. > I personally prefer to add stops in the order that they are served for the majority of services on that route. For example: I am trying (with anyone who wants to help) to get all the public transport on the Isle of Wight correctly mapped out, and keeping track of progress on this wiki page<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport_on_the_Isle_of_Wight>. Now bus route 7 is a bit complex, effectively it's 3 different routes cobbled together, so I created 3 relations (1 for each version). To these I added the ways in no particular order, then the stops from origin to destination, and then the stops on the opposite side of the road going back the other way. Adding stops like this keeps them in order when displayed in a list (eg: 7 via Brighstone on öpnvkarte<http://%C3%B6pnvkarte.de/route.php?name=7%20via%20Brighstone&id=311757>, on relation browser <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/311757>, whole route on öpnvkarte<http://%C3%B6pnvkarte.de/?zoom=12&lat=50.66932&lon=-1.43099&layers=BT>). There are sporadic proposals to make this more logical, such as by adding an increasing count to each stop for any particular route, but nothing concrete at the moment. Note that nodes which are not part of a way (eg:most bus stops) need the "forward_stop"/"backward_stop" to refer to the bus direction, not the direction of the associated way. öpnvkarte seems to think nodes that *are*part of ways (eg: rail stations) also have to be tagged like this. The wiki says this is incorrect, but I'm unclear how authoritative that is. Thankfully the problem doesn't arise very often as very few rail services run in one direction only - the few I've come across that do, I've used the same scheme as bus stops (forward_stop for a train from A to B, backward_stop for B to A). For most tram or train routes, you could add all the stops as "stop" rather than "forward_stop"/"backward_stop", as they tend to be a single node, called at in both directions. I ignore unusual short journeys completely (Isle of Wight bus route 7 is a good example), and that seems to be the consensus. The problem with doing that comes if there are certain journeys that go along *extra* ways rather than fewer - I have no idea how that would be mapped, but for the moment I'm ignoring that. > > > > > next thing. i have seen many osm users create bus routes such as route > > 4, while i think the correct way is route 3. am i correct? > If you can find a reliable source for the reference tag being wrong, change it, and add "ref:source=YourSourceURL" in the relation. If you're not sure, I would leave it and create a new relation for route 3, leaving the 4 intact until you can be certain it is wrong. That said, if the 4 doesn't appear on any official maps/timetable, and it's relation follows exactly the same route as the 3, it probably is wrong. > > Here are some routes that I have added: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ipswich#Bus_Routes > > > I hope that helps and happy mapping! > > > Regards, > > > Peter > > Again, as with Peter, I hope that's helpful! David. > > > > > > thank you for your comments, > > > > jozef > > > > -- end -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Talk-transit mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-transit mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit >
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