As one of those academics (in Computer Science, no less), I use a Macbook Pro that I connect to a Dell widescreen at work, and a Phillips 328E1 4K widescreen at home, which I mostly using in Landscape mode. It's blisteringly fast, works everywhere, runs forever (like 1/2 a day) on battery, and has all the software available that I could want (almost completely FOSS). It's not Linux, but it's Unix in a terminal window. The majority of my colleagues run Macs, with Windows and Linux about tied for the rest. My machine was a bit pricey, but many people have Macbook Airs, which are also great at a great pricepoint.
My servers all run Linux, and I used a Linux laptop until (a) my Linux wouldn't connect to a projector at a conference, and (b) Apple put Unix under the GUI. So I've been a happy Mac/Linux user for 2 decades. ../Dave On Sun, 17 Sept 2023 at 16:01, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <[email protected]> wrote: > | From: Peter King via talk <[email protected]> > > A wonderfully clear and evocative elegy! > All rational. > > | To: D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <[email protected]> > | Cc: Peter King <[email protected]> > | Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 13:11:24 -0400 > | Subject: Re: [GTALUG] brands matter; Lenovo's brands > | > | All points about brands/branding noted and appreciated. I got the Lenovo > | Legion T5 because I wanted a desktop, and it seemed to me that the niche > for > | high-quality and well-built desktops -- what used to be called > "enterprise" or > | "business" models -- had largely collapsed, being supplanted by either > | high-end laptops that business users would tote around and if necessary > plug > | into a docking station, or by cheap consumer-grade desktops that were > shoddily > | built, under-powered, and meant to be thrown away in a few years (more > | economical than investing in long-lasting hardware that would be > outmoded too > | quickly). So what is someone who wants a good desktop unit to do? > > I don't mean to push Lenovo. I pick them to discuss because I'm slightly > more familiar with them (mostly on paper). > > As far as I can tell, there are still full-sized business towers. Here's > a page from Lenovo. > > < > https://www.lenovo.com/ca/lenovopro/en/desktops/subseries-results/?visibleDatas=1033%3ATower%2CTower%25C2%25A0&sortBy=bestSelling > > > > They aren't particularly inexpensive. Some might be missing important > features. I favour AMD processors but they are under-represented. None > is offered with Linux. > > Interestingly, they include your model (newer variants). > > Lenovo has a separate category "Workstation". It includes desktop > ThinkStations and notebook ThinkPads. > < > https://www.lenovo.com/ca/lenovopro/en/d/deals/workstations/?sortBy=priceUp&visibleDatas=1035%3AThinkStation > > > > Some of their servers (ThinkServer) look a lot like "desktops" (towers > that go under desks): > < > https://www.lenovo.com/ca/lenovopro/en/d/deals/servers/?tabkey=Server%20%26%20Storage%20Deals > > > The one inexpensive model has a Celeron processor. > > ====================== > > Perhaps you are inferring too much about the quality of your Legion box > from a few datapoints. > > ============================== > > My desktop is a decade old (HP Envy). The only things I changed inside > the box in that time (mostly in the first year): > > - replaced the GPU (to drive my high resolution displays) > > - added RAM > > - added an SSD > > For my next desktop, I expect to live with the iGPU. That leaves disk > bays the only issue with SFF or smaller boxes. > > Personally, I don't really fill up modern disks (they are big!). I do > want backups, but they need to be separate from the computer anyway. > > | A few years ago one of my desktop units failed. I replaced it with a > miniPC, > | a minisform model I put more RAM and two 2TB SSDs into, and it runs just > | fine. Maybe that is the way to go. > > Ah, so you are quite familiar with that form factor. > > | (I have a portable high-resolution LCD > | screen now, and I think I'll eventually just carry around miniPCs rather > than > | laptops.) > > A laptop really is more portable than mini PC + display + keyboard + > mouse. > > | But then again I also have a 14-year-old ThinkPad that still runs > | like a dream once I put in an SSD; one of the last models with the > "real" IBM > | keyboard in it. > > 14 year old laptops have processors that use a lot of power when > sleeping. > Kind of annoying in a laptop. They probably don't have USB 3, also > annoying. They don't have good displays. They are surely heavy. They > won't have HDMI-out. The DisplayPort probably cannot drive UltraHD. By > now, the battery is probably worn out and it isn't easy to get decent > replacements. The oldest processors generation that I'm happy to use in > notebooks is "Haswell" (launched 10 years ago). > > We still use a ThinkPad T530 (Ivy Bridge), but always plugged in and > without an external monitor. > > | Perhaps mistakenly, I thought that the combination of new hardware with > the > | rough requirements gamers have for their machines -- able to be run hard > for > | long periods of time, for instance -- would give me durability and was > the > | Next Best Thing to the trouble of actually assembling a desktop machine > | myself. (I actually like to build computers, but I just don't have the > time > | these days, unfortunately.) Seems I was wrong, or at least wrong that > this > | model from Lenovo would be like that. > > Reasonable. One has to look at what makes a cheap model cheap. What > corners are cut? What proprietary things make replacement / upgrade hard? > > But you have to ask the same question about business desktops too. The > sheet metal is likely of a higher gauge, but they still may put in > proprietary traps. I have old Dell business computers that require you to > buy extra "sleds" to install more hard drives (why??) and those have all > the problems of proprietary bits. They often have lovely tool-less > access to all the parts. > > I have a ThinkCentre M75s to which I added an NVMe drive. But I cannot > easily source the odd gizmo that is a support and heat sink for it (I have > faked it). > > | I didn't even consider ThinkCentres, which word-of-mouth had rated as > | overpriced and underpowered, and in any event I wanted (and still want) > an > | extremely reliable machine that I can re-use my 3.5" spinning disks in > along > | with other desktop-sized hardware. My three desktops are located in > different > | offices, and they make a mini-cloud of backups etc. > > I don't buy new ThinkCentres. I opportunistically buy used ones -- not a > quick process. Underpowered only matters up to a point. My decade old i7 > is actually fast enough for me. > > Having lots of drive bays isn't something that desktops do. Servers, > maybe. You probably need a bespoke system (i.e. made to order). > > | Most of my academic colleagues took an entirely different route -- by and > | large they use a high-end laptop as their main computer, and either go > for a > | docking-station setup or just use a cheap "business" desktop for > email/web > | work, a reversal of the old approach where the laptop was for light duty > and > | the desktop for serious work. > > Quite sensible. But a bit wasteful: you have to replace the whole > computer when the weakest component pinches. > > | I am not a market of one (yet). But there are times when it is starting > to > | feel that way. And not working in tech, I don't hear what's current, > whose > | machines are reliable, and the sort of unwritten lore that would help > inform > | sensible purchasing choices. > | > | I suspect this list of desiderata would apply to many in this group: > | > | - reliable and long-lived > | > | - user-upgradeable and user-fixable > | > | - high storage capacity > | > | - fast, or fast enough for work purposes > | > | - able to manipulate high-end graphics (and sometimes high-end audio) > files > > No longer mainstream: > - 5.25" bays (optical drives; 5.25" floppies). > - 3.5" bays (hard drives) > - 2.5" bays (laptop HDDs, older SSDs) > > Only these internal expansion capabilities remain: > - PCIe slots (video cards, a few after-market expansion card) > - m.2 slots (NVMe drives, WiFi / BlueTooth cards) > - DIMM / SODIMM slots for RAM (endangered) > > The "user-fixable" requirement is clearly not binary. You might want > to be a bit flexible on this because it's not a good use of your time > on an academic treadmill. > > | Things I don't need are: high framerate, portability, small form-factor, > | Windows, the latest wireless speed standard, anything more than ordinary > | ethernet, optical disks. I can plug in USB peripherals for keyboard, > mouse, > | portable devices, or even optical disks. I can even use offboard DAC > high-end > | audio over USB, which works quite well. I have thought about building a > NAS > | system, to reduce my need for local high-capacity storage, but every > time I > | look into it, the plethora of software choices and the difficulty of > | configuring a server to do what is normally done locally makes me just, > well, > | give up. > > The paradox of choice. > > You can buy NASes off the shelf. For our household, I bought a few > many years ago. Now they are no longer supported, even though the > hardware is fine. In future, we'll roll our own so that they won't > get orphaned. > > William Park made a good point: why not skip the NAS. > > | Essentially, for a desktop unit I want a server-type machine that is also > | capable of working with large graphics images, mostly static. I don't > think > | there is anything like that for general sale, and so it isn't just > branding -- > | it's having enough people to sustain a market for such a product. > > What aspect of "server type" do you require? > > I think that almost any machine these days is capable of working with > large graphics images, mostly static. > > You might want to think hard about how many 3.5" drive bays you want. > You can get HDDs with really high capacities these days. It isn't > obvious to me that RAID works well with drives that big. > > | For that matter, I far prefer manual transmission in cars, but that's a > | preference that is hard to sustain these days. Fortunately that's just a > | preference and not a matter of work. > > Manual exists but makes less sense when the automatics get similar or > better fuel economy. And EV's are a whole different kettle of fish. > > | Thanks to everyone for all the reflections; there is more to the problem > than > | I was properly aware of. Today I will open up the Legion and see how > | easy/difficult it is to replace the CMOS battery and to bypass the > high-end > | graphics card. The saga continues. > > I hope that went well.--- > Post to this mailing list [email protected] > Unsubscribe from this mailing list > https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk >
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