On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 7:16 PM Evan Leibovitch via talk <[email protected]> wrote:
> The more this thread continues the more I am reminded about the role of > inertia in branding and marketing. > > Gaining a new customer (ie, getting them to switch brands) is a lot harder > than keeping existing ones, especially in mature markets. It's why many big > scummy companies treat you like dirt until the moment you threaten to > switch, at which point they shunt you to "retention" departments that > sometimes offer the only situations one could call competitive. Maybe. > > I'd say that now HP, <https://hpdevone.com/linux-laptop> Dell > <https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-ca/000138246/linux-on-dell-desktops-and-laptops> > and Lenovo > <https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/faqs/operating-systems/what-is-linux/> all > expend the minimum necessary effort to support Linux, though that support > takes different forms. All know that you can't sell servers that won't > support Linux, and we don't have the compatibility issues of the early days > (where support meant not just PC markers but those of add-on interfaces > such as Adaptec and Digitech). Now most compatibility issues are either > BIOS related (mostly solved, and the fault of Microsoft rather than > hardware makers) graphics card and USB dongles (not an issue for servers > and not actually the fault of the laptop makers). > > The "Thinkpad love" I see here IMO appears to reflect the age and > experiences of the discussion participants. Early in the days of PCs there > was way more diversity in hardware that could be explicitly Linux friendly > or hostile, and IBM was friendlier from the start when not all were. > Recall that in the 90s and 00s, HP, IBM and Dell (well DEC which was > eventually consumed by Dell via Compaq) all had big legacy > Unix/minicomputer businesses to protect, plus under Ballmer Microsoft was > overtly and aggressively hostile. IBM probably did the best job in not > letting all this get in the way of providing Linux support early on its > high-end PCs, and that reputation has stuck to the Thinkpad brand to this > day. > > It would be interesting to see how anyone here who has only started buying > computers in the last 15 years or so regards this reverence for Lenovo. > > I think I bought my first laptop in 2011 (so I guess that puts me in this category :-)). I have always had Linux on my computers, to the extent of not signing on with an employer when they needed me to run only Windows. I have owned thinkpads, HPs, and had experience on a couple of other brands (netbooks and MSI). Thinkpads have generally have had the best support for Linux - and not because Lenovo cares, but simply because majority of the developers I know of preferred using thinkpads. Having said that - I have had really positive experience with Lenovo support. HP wouldn't care what I had on the laptop and reimaged Windows on it. Not to mention trying to setup Linux on it was a nightmare (and I think I fit the category of advanced Linux users). In another case (I think it was an MSI), I knew the hardware was supported by Linux, but I could only get everything working with Fedora rawhide. Coming back to thinkpad support though - I have rarely had issues with them supporting hardware irrespective of the OS running on it. It was easier of course if it had Windows, but they would send out a technician who had their own boot disk to boot into their diagnostic OS and confirm the issue (I did pony up the extra $s for the in person support). My employer also has kernel developers working with Lenovo for some of their laptops to ensure that Linux support is in, which has resulted in a number of fixes to bioses and to the kernel. I believe we do it with a few other OEMs, but Lenovo was the one I cared to find out about since I have a thinkpad. Dhaval
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