Nice! I think I know your friend Tom. Isn't your friend Jerry Haliton, AKA Slau?
-----Original Message----- From: Talk [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom Kingston via Talk Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2019 5:57 PM To: David via Talk Cc: Tom Kingston Subject: Re: Microsoft Talks Raising the Bar on Accessibility No, Narrator does not yet compare to Window-Eyes, NVDA, or JAWS. But a lot of work has been done on it and it is a pretty capable screen reader for the average user today. And be it that both Doug Geoffray and Ron Parker (the two main developers from GW-Micro) are there, I assume they're looking to do a little more than give it a facelift. The real problem was Bill Gates. Our needs had no priority all the years he was at the helm. Most of what was done for accessibility was done under pressure from differing directions. However, since Satya Nadella took over the helm, accessibility became a real priority and there has been a sweeping change across the entire enterprise on awareness and incorporating accessibility into the development process. There has been an enormous amount of work done on accessibility in product lines such as Office and the Visual Studio programming environment. Whether one purchases or subscribes to Office is their choice. For some (blind or not) the small monthly or annual payments is the difference between getting it and not getting it. Microsoft will never sell Narrator. They would be publicly shamed. And the market is too small to make a difference to a company that large anyway. I'm not a fan of Apple's VoiceOver. But it is scriptable in some manner. I have a friend who owns a recording studio in New York city and is running purely on Macs. That is work that is far beyond that of the average user. So, from my perspective, the world isn't quite so bleak and out to get us. On 7/7/2019 10:07 AM, David via Talk wrote: > Well, let it be Narrator might eventually turn into something useful. > And forebare with me, I have not tested anything later than Win8.1, so > perhaps it is already getting into something basic. Google managed to > have a somehow working screen reader, and what I hear, so did Apple. > Still, I think very few people will agree, should we claim any of these > even close to the standard of things like Jaws, Win-Eyes, and to a > certain degree NVDA. For one thing, those screen readers that are > included with the OS, lack a good deal of personalization capabilities. > I am not aware you can built any kind of Scripts or add-ons to either of > them. > > > Besides, dreaming that Microsoft would let all be part of the OS, > without charging their users; seem not too much to rely on, should we > judge from history. OK, they could change their schemes, and very much > welcome to do that. But look what they have done with Office. Sure, you > don't have to pay them a check of a couple of hundred dollars, but > rather they are going to feed at your credit card table every single > month. In about two years, you have subscribe enough that you could have > bought the full-fledged version. And did you buy, you could have camped > with it for the next 5 or 10 years. > > > My guess is, that you at the best will see MS coming out with a somehow > working Narrator.And then, should you want it to perform anything much > more than just read the screen to you, you will be offered to pay $19.95 > a month; or, in case you want the Professional version with some basic > scripting like Jaws - let's charge you $39.95 a month. > > > I've been using Android for a little now, and have to say it is great to > see the screen reader has improved over the last handful of years. > Still, a simple thing like browsing the net, TalkBack lacks a whole lot. > And, there are a few things that you might want to do on a computer, > which you do not necessarily see fit on your small mobil device. Hence, > whatever good the screen reader might be on your cellphone or tablet, > will you please consider comparing your activity on these units, as well > as your productivity - and then come back telling me these screen > readers are to be compared with WinEyes for one. But if now, Google and > Apple - both being really big industries, and even somehow passed by > Microsoft in market sharing - has never got anything better than this, > why would you expect Microsoft to be. As MS are loosing market, they > doubtfully will put too much into a screen reader. After all, it is not > the screen reader that will sell. On the other hand, as Google and Apple > has climbed the ladder of the market, you would somehow have expected > them to have invested more in their screen readers. What is it you think > MS will be doing different? > > > Sorry, I did not mean to be critical, or to put anyone down. I just > meant to point out the realities of today. Business is business; and it > is all about money. As the electronic devices have dropped in price, > noone wants to pay 5 times the electronic price, for their software to > be able to run the device. Meaning, the software industry cannot charge > you a shirt, a jacket and five pairs of shoes -just to leave you the > license for turning on your computer. Why we see more and more > subscription-based products. Even now aday, the pricing of the Windows > license soon will be higher than the price of buying just a brand new > computer, with a somehow restricted license on it. Use it for two or > three years, till the poor quality breaks, and then throw it away and go > get yourself a new one. Or, like Office, make people pay you a fortune > over the life-span of the product, by charging them that little each > month, that they do not know you are draining their bank account. > > > As an interesting side-track here, might I take the opportunity to tell > you all something from locally? > > You know, some cellphone operators offer you a mid-range phone, for a > quite reduced price. Only fish-hook of it all, you have to subscribe for > a given service, for the next 24 months or something of that sort. Over > here, the authorities have decided that when they advertise for this > kind of products, they will have to show you the GRAND TOTAL, phone > price and all the months subscription costs summed up. And they have to > do this right there in the advertisement. When you sit down and look at > it, it often turns out the deal is not good at all. You thought you got > a cheap phone, and perhaps you did. But they knew to charge you the > price-reduction and all interests plus a good deal more, through your > *tiny* little monthly subscriptions. > > > Will be interesting to see what happens to Narrator. Another thing of > course is, that some rumors want it that Win10 is perhaps the last > Windows version ever. And if so, do you think MS are going to spend too > much on a product that will go down the drain anyway? > > > Just some thoughts. > > David > > On 7/7/2019 5:39 AM, Brenda via Talk wrote: >> I wonder if W-E would have just been absorbed sooner had Microsoft bought >> them years ago. I can’t see Microsoft letting W-E be a standalone program. >> Maybe GW micro knew this and did not want to lose control of the program to >> Microsoft. >> >> The whole thing was very painful but maybe in the long run it will be a good >> thing because narrator may soon become as good as window eyes and maybe even >> better and if so, it will be included in Windows so no one will have to pay >> extra for it. >> >> We can’t change the past, but there is hope for the future. (I just wish we >> had the W-E support people to call when we needed help.) >> >> >> Brenda >> >> >> >> >> >> Dictated and sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jul 6, 2019, at 8:30 PM, Olusegun -- Victory Associates LTD, Inc. via >>> Talk <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Sky, perhaps I am terribly selfish, stupid, and a fool to boot; Microsoft >>> should have bought Window-Eyes for integration into Windows. If it had, it >>> would have had a TALKING INSTALLER more than 25 years ago and would not need >>> to reinvent the wheels. >>> >>> I'm always dreaming, I just hope I don't fall off the cliff. Anyhow, I'm >>> sure glad that GW Micro staff are over there teaching and helping Microsoft >>> to do the right thing! >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Olusegun >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/bjnite%40gmail.com. >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author >> and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >> >> For membership options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >> For subscription options, visit >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >> List archives can be found at >> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > _______________________________________________ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/tom.kingston%40charter.net. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/skyt%40shaw.ca. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
