>mostly personal attack [2], The following is not a personal attack its a last ditch effort to get you to think before acting or posting. I may use terms you are not familiar with urbandictionary.com is a good source for explanations.
You seem to take any comment by anyone who does not wholeheartedly agree with you as a personal attack. I get the impression that English is not your first language? Trust me as a native English speaker there have only been issues raised and none of Frederik's post have been personal. I do sense frustration in them. I share his frustration as I get the impression you don't understand what is being attempted to communicate. You don't seem to be analyzing what is being said. You are saying words but they might just as well be from an AI bot for all the sense they make. Go more formal. Keep the sentences shorter. Keep to one small topic at a time. OpenStreetMap origins were people coming together as a community and mapping. The community aspect is still very important. The technical term is called people skills. It's called being polite and listening. It's a skill that will serve you well in life. I think the only people I know who do not require people skills or political skills with a small p are quants and that is only because their skills are in very high demand. If you wish to join the community in mapping then please listen to what it says. If you want to do something else fine, you can set up your own OSM server and play on that to your heart's content but if you are playing on the OSM community's database then you should abide by their rules. The thing you don't seem to be comfortable with is the idea that someone mapped something as they wanted to map it. Yes they may well have got it wrong from your point of view but it might well be correct from their point of view and that is what OpenStreetMap is about. Letting people map what they want to map in the way they wish to do it. By changing their tagging you may offend the mapper and since its the mappers who are the most important part of OSM this is not good. This is a major reason why automated edits are frowned on. The other is if you don't know what you are doing you can screw things up royally and by some of the feedback you've had the community needs reassurance that you aren't screwing things up royally. Hopefully some of this might sink in, hopefully it might help you in other ways than just dealing with OSM. Mapping is supposed to be fun and this isn't. Cheerio John On 13 November 2017 at 19:42, Yuri Astrakhan <yuriastrak...@gmail.com> wrote: > Frederik, once again you are using your position and mailing list as a > tribune, speaking to others instead of speaking to me. I posted [1] my > initial idea/tool, and you immediately wrote a large, mostly personal > attack [2], rather than something like [3] - which also criticized, but > helped guide it forward. Most of the issues you mention in [2] have long > been addressed, but you don't care to discuss the actual changes - you > already made up your mind that it's evil, and you haven't replied to a > single attempt at a substantive communication. I even offered to video talk > to you directly, hoping that an understanding could be reached, but alas. > > I think your emails strongly polarized community. I kept changing and > adapting Sophox based on the received feedback, including yours. I don't > think you have ever changed the rhetoric or tried to gain understanding or > a compromise. People come to the project, bring new ideas, and try to fix > issues they see as important to them. Instead of trying to understand and > adapt, several hard-liners have taken the "this is not how it's done around > here" approach, and forced people out. > > Accusations are easy - we can spew them thousands at a time. Refuting them > one by one takes much more effort. Saying that I jump topics many times > doesn't make it so. I am very consistently discussing just one thing - > Sophox [4], and how it can help make OSM better. Tons of people want to > runs bots on OSM, but Sophox tries to find a safe middle ground between > bots and humans, addressing the problems that are clearly there (otherwise > all these tools wouldn't have been created). > > [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017- > October/079145.html > [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017- > October/079146.html > [3] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017- > October/079172.html > [4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sophox > > On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:19 PM, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> On 11/13/2017 10:58 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: >> > Andy, I can only assume you agree with the rest of my argument. >> >> Yuri, I think at this point it is time for me to stop reading your >> contributions here. You are not genuinely trying to understand; this is >> just a smoke-screen. You are trying to win an argument here by cleverly >> jumping from topic to topic, putting words in people's mouths, and if >> that's not enough you try to simply write 20x more than anybody else >> hoping to wear everyone out. >> >> This mailing list is not a high school debate club, however much you >> treat it like one, and you've abused OpenStreetMap as your playground >> for far too long already starting when you first lied to me about >> stopping your mass wikidata tag additions. I'm tired of it and I won't >> make any further attempts to explain things to you. >> >> Just in case you are tempted to interpret future silence from me as a >> silent agreement - don't. Ever. >> >> Bye >> Frederik >> >> -- >> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > > _______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > >
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