Greetings Tom!
To my knowledge TB is written in Delphi, if asked I'd say Delphi.
The Newbie isn't going to send out an unusually high amount of
no subject messages, or WE WOULD HAVE A HIGHER RATIO THAN 6 in 100!!!!
Automatically, Putting %ME into the SUBJECT LINE is NOT RFC COMPLIANT!
It's a software APPLICATION BUG! It's bloat. I don't want it.
It can also be used to identify someone if it is a COMMON String!
The quickbar search Is NEEDED. A NAG-POP-UP ISN'T!
At 2bytes of code for 50 folders, the program's stored settings alone
becomes bigger. Were not even talking about the actual code needed to
do a NAG-POP-UP SCREEN WITH RESOURCES!
If you do not know what self-modifying code is. Fine. Then your at
least talking about 50 new registry entries.
The Bat does not have crappy helpfiles, a terrible UI, and unusable
color. It's Bloody Common Sense to enter a godamn Subject!
If you don't like Mandrake then Go get Debian or whatever. I run more
than one kind of Linux too. I really don't see how this has
relevance. Or allows you to judge me on Squat. I've been talking
about RFC 822, and BLOODY COMMON SENSE!
So your programming 3DFX Games then I take it yes?
Okay, let's agree on one thing, You Haven't seen the source code to
TB, and neither have I, therefore we really don't know WHAT will
happen by adding another switch. However, this switch, isn't needed
to be RFC Compliant. So, it IS Bloat.
On Monday, May 15, 2000 at 23:43:04 GMT -0700 (which was 11:43 PM
where you think I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:
TP>>> Ever seen message boxes with a "do not show this warning again"
TP>>> checkbox? That adds a little more "bloat" but doesn't slow you down
TP>>> any more.
p>> Right, it's called a "switch."
TP> In some programming languages, perhaps. Using the Win32 API in C or
TP> C++, it's called a checkbox.
p>> And the way that netscape's switch works, that once you tell it not
p>> to show again, you literally have to destroy your settings to go
p>> back to the original. (usually beyond the newbie's ability)
TP> So you're saying that since the newbie may take the choice that they
TP> don't want with a not-understood dialog box, it's best to assume that
TP> the newbie didn't really want it anyway? Doesn't make sense to me.
p>>>> I never liked it. I'd rather have "no warning" "No pop-up" It's just
p>>>> another pop-up screen to slow you down. I been fighting to get rid of
p>>>> pop-up screens.. You wanna Add more? LOL One other question...
TP>>> User configurability is the key.
p>> Where have I heard that before? Yes, user configurable, right now it
p>> *IS* configurable, you type in the subject/or lack of subject, and off
p>> you go. (great for listbot servers -BTW)
TP> Uh huh, I see the words but they're not making any sense. I don't
TP> happen to see "user control of pop-up warnings" having anything to do
TP> with the choice to (not) type in a subject.
TP> *I* would prefer that email clients not only not allow sending a
TP> message with no subject, but put me into the subject line when I go to
TP> send a message that has no subject.
p>> Your suggestion add's limitation ie: a switch of some type and a
p>> pop-up screen. So, the next logical question is... Will this be
p>> applied globally(It'l limit the program), what if some folks want to
p>> use it on account specific(program get's bigger), or even folder
p>> specific settings(Program gets bigger yet.)
TP> Implementation details are left to the developers, but your assertion
TP> that making such a thing folder-specific means that it's bigger than
TP> application wide is only partially true: the code for the QuickSearch
TP> bar is almost guaranteed to dwarf any pop-up message.
TP> No reason why such a thing couldn't be folder specific. Hmm, instead
TP> of checking the global variable check the variable that's stored in
TP> the folder's data area. Data size grows by an amazing amount, only
TP> eight of such options can fit in the space of one letter in the
TP> mailbox format. Damn watch that bloat.
p>> Where are these settings stored? An ini file? Self modifying code?
TP> Unfortunately you know the words but not what they mean. What self
TP> modifying code has to do with storing user options is beyond me...
p>> So, with what was stated above, the options, would have to be not a
p>> "do not show again" switch, since that would create configuration
p>> problems, therefore, it would either have to be applied globally,
p>> or per account, or per folder. Which brings me full circle, to the
p>> question of how many more resource files will that need, and how
p>> many new Sub's, iterations? I am not saying it can't be done, I am
p>> saying, where does it stop?
TP> Well the solution is not necessarily one of "do not show again" in the
TP> pop up message. Perhaps it's in the account options page. The
TP> addition to the resource script, since many here probably don't know,
TP> probably adds to the overall size of the executable the amount of
TP> space taken up by the longest word in this sentence.
TP> Let me end this subject here by suggesting that the only people who I
TP> shall respond to about "bloat" are people who actually know the first
TP> thing about WINDOWS programming, and by that I don't mean the
TP> high-level implementation, I mean what it actually turns into. Even a
TP> resource script in VC++ isn't what a dialog box turns into, it turns
TP> into an extremely small data set which gets fed into the Windows OS
TP> for creation at some point in the future.
p>>>> Do you do any(and I mean in ANY language ASM, C, BASIC, VB, etc.)
p>>>> programming yourself? I have done some programming myself, i'm no
p>>>> expert, but I learned really fast my programs get big really quick when
p>>>> I start adding eye-candy. Pop-up screens are eyecand... its hand
p>>>> holding..
TP>>> Hand holding is not eye candy. Anyway, yeah, I'm a programmer.
p>> If the second statement is true, I don't see how you can say the first
p>> statement is true.
TP> Aye, but at the same time I've pretty much determined that you're not
TP> the one to judge.
p>> I've written down and dirty programs that have no color, no
p>> windows, no helpfiles that are at least half the size of adding
p>> color, windows, helpfiles.
TP> Unfortunately for all of us, a program can have crappy helpfiles, a
TP> terrible UI, and unusable color, thereby offering ZERO handholding
TP> while at the same time not being eyecandy.
TP> Let me define it for y'all in the way that my industry uses it:
TP> Eyecandy is the stuff that's not necessary for program execution but
TP> makes the experience of using the software "cool". It's not something
TP> that makes the program more functional, it's something that is utterly
TP> useless and exists for no other reason that to provide the user with a
TP> "pretty" environment within which (s)he can work.
p>> Anytime I've added windows and new resources, the program grows (no
p>> pun) "like a bat outta hell!" (A new tagline!) <BG>
TP> Sorry to hear it. I've seen some pretty fancy Windows programs that do
TP> some amazing things (and have a lot of handholding AND eyecandy), all
TP> the while being smaller than "hello, world" generated by VC++ or
TP> Delphi.
TP>>> Software of mine has sold 2 million copies around the world and I'm
TP>>> sure right around the same number of pirated copies.
p>> What software is that? Friendly question, just curious, I guess I
p>> could just do a search on your name, or you can save me the time. A
p>> url would be an okay answer.
TP> My name wouldn't turn up much that's current but you can see what I've
TP> spent the last three years working on (at least, the interpretation
TP> that the web people have of it) at http://www.syphonfilter.com/.
TP>>> Pop-up windows can be irritating but they can be useful. Hence the
TP>>> reason for making them user configuable, yet another thing that Agent
TP>>> does wonderfully.
p>> TB isn't Agent.
TP> Heh, that's the truth.
p>> I tried a freeware agent once(seemed like it sucked because you
p>> can't change the Server's without some hassle)...
TP> FreeAgent doesn't have all of the facilities of the pay-Agent. It
TP> tells you that in the helpfiles and the website from which you
TP> download it.
p>> I use Linux http://www.linux-mandrake.com for my newsgroups on
p>> newsguys(zippo.)
TP> Thankfully for a lot of other Linux people, Agent runs under Wine
TP> reasonably well (http://www.winehq.org/ if memory serves). Thanks for
TP> the URL, but I have several Linux choices that I'd make before
TP> Mandrake (ick).
p>> I have no need for agent as you can see. If your suggesting the Bat
p>> have NNTP support, I would say...
TP> I would never suggest such a thing, as they say, Agent is great at
TP> that when you don't need multiple server support.
TP>>> Anyhow, adding pop up windows with one checkbox and some text and a
TP>>> yes/no button selection does NOT add all that much code under windows.
p>> What about under Delphi? At least one new resource file... YES? Some
p>> more interfacing to some other iterations Depending on how structured
p>> the rest of the program is. YES? Possibly a new subroutine? YES?
TP> Dunno about Delphi adding files, but the number of resource files is
TP> ultimately irrelevant. An intelligent implementation would add one
TP> line of C code for the check, one for the setting of the checkbox at
TP> dialog initialization time and one for the checking of it on "OK",
TP> definitely tons of bloat. Again, not a whole lot compared to the
TP> rumoured newsreader support.
TP> -tom!
--
... Once upon a time there was a baby bat, but it grew and grew and grew and grew with
success!
--- The Bat! 1.42f + 98Lite + Revenge of Mozilla II
--
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