On Sun, Feb 03, 2019 at 02:41:28PM +0100, Ingo Schwarze wrote:
> Hi Pascal,
> Pascal Stumpf wrote on Sun, Feb 03, 2019 at 11:13:12AM +0100:
> > That is not correct because [...]
> Which illustrates yet again that getting good grades at school
> doesn't imply real understanding; i dared to try and research the
> matter anyway because i forgot that with pascal@, we have somebody
> in our group who really understands classical languages and literature.
> Thanks for your insight, Pascal.
> >> So if you want to keep the entry, i'd recommend
> >> 
> >>   Per aspera ad astra.  (Through hardship to immortality.)
> > ok pascal@
> Committed.

Oof, folks I think we've missed the forest for the trees here.

By focussing on the minutiae of the Latin translation we've discarded
the English motto ("through <something> to the stars") that imho
anchored the whole thing.

As noted previously, this phrase was a modern invention with a hasty
Latin translation conscripted to it to add some credence so you could
sew it onto a vest or stamp it onto a medal.

The intent of the whole thing was a poetic English verse, not an
accurate Latin translation.  The Latin was subordinate, as evidenced
by the difficult translation.  The intended audience spoke English.

But okay, because it isn't attributed to anyone or anything in our
file I can see how we focussed in on that and worked from the Latin
toward a more correct English translation.  And translation is
puzzle-solving and puzzle-solving is fun.

I empathize.

But... I humbly suggest we partially revert and instead add an
attribution.  Some quick googling suggests "Per ardua ad astra" is the
motto of the Royal Air Force:


and that their translation is "through adversity to the stars".  Which
is completely consistent with my understanding of their M.O.,
artistically or otherwise.

So if we do this:

Index: fortunes2
RCS file: /cvs/src/games/fortune/datfiles/fortunes2,v
retrieving revision 1.50
diff -u -p -r1.50 fortunes2
--- fortunes2   3 Feb 2019 13:35:33 -0000       1.50
+++ fortunes2   5 Feb 2019 05:54:18 -0000
@@ -7694,7 +7694,8 @@ Assume true for N, prove for N+1:
        it is true for all N+1 floors.
-Per aspera ad astra.  (Through hardship to immortality.)
+Per ardua ad astra.  (Through adversity to the stars.)
+               -- Motto of the Royal Air Force
 Adde parvum parvo manus acervus erit.
 [Add little to little and there will be a big pile.]

we aren't guilty of mistranslation.  Now we're just quoting a known
entity.  And we get the great, poetic English bit back.

And I know I'm showing up late, so I guess I'll live if we keep
it as Ingo committed it :)


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