Hi Gordon I agree with your comments regarding Freedom and their practices. I have had enough of paying £125 every two releases of a product that is just full of bells and whistles most people don't use in their day-to-day lives. The argument Freedomites use is that R and D costs a lot of money, which is why they charge what they do for their updates. But I started my JAWS journey from 3.2 in 1999. Since then, I could have bought the product over and over with the outlay I have put into it, and that is only me, one individual among thousands. The worst bit of it all is that if you choose to skip an upgrade for whatever reason, there is no margin for doing so with Freedom, you are just penalised and pay more next time you upgrade. In fairness to K1000, if you jump from say version 5 to version 13, you are only charged the same amount you would need to fork out for if you moved from version 12 to 13. In my view at least, this is fairer.
And on the subject of the Freedom ILM system, you can't even send your token back to the Internet, even though there is an icon to do it within JAWS. How ridiculous is that? I used to use a Braille translation package called Braille Maker, and whenever I was doing maintenance to my computer, I would send its only token back to the server to protect it from being corrupted. Once I had done the necessary and obligatory cleanups, I retrieved it. Why can't Freedom be like that? I asked Eric Damary about it once, and he said they had decided not to allow this method because it was open to piracy! Oh well, another rant over! (smile). Kind regards, Jackie Brown Twitter: @thebrownsplace Skype: Thejackmate -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith Sent: 14 December 2013 19:50 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: Re: App Evaluation: Seeing Eye GPS: Three Organizations,One Stellar Effort! - AccessWorldR - November 2013 Hi Jackie Yes, this has long been a point which Ive debated with some people who simply cannot see where the wrong lies. In other words, it doesnt affect them so they dont care about it. I know some people who have freely and openly admitted that they are using a pirated version of Jaws. Freedom are setting themselves up every time they release a new version. I would never condone piracy, and I would never involve myself in it. I have strong views on that topic. But that being said, I can understand why people would ;try to go that route. Freedom scientific has no conscience, thats what it boils down too. Basically they see us as targets from whom they can make money. So therefore, they make all of these ILM implementations in order to prevent people from doing what theyre entitled to do. After all, why the hell should Freedom Scientific be able to tell customers what they can and cannot change regarding their PC? If somebody opts to upgrade their laptop, for instance, to a SSD system, this would well and truly screw up the ILM activation system which Freedom is now employing. Even drive cloning software wouldnt solve the problem because the sector count wouldnt match what the activation code expected. In other words, Freedom offers no mechanism buy which the ILM can be removed and yet they often refuse to exceed to customers requests for what anybody else would consider reasonable flexibility. I have long since disassociated myself with most things GW Micro. But credit where it is due. GW Micro has, for the most part anyway, continued its long-standing policy of distributing their flagship software product with no copy protection at all. In the main, I think this is probably paying dividends for them. Sadly, yoll always get those individuals who refuse point blank to pay what people should be paying to use software. In other words, they wont buy anything even if its price is reasonable. They seem to believe that they have a god-given right to use anything and everything free of charge and to hell with anybody else. Anyway, this isnt really about piracy. It is about Freedom Scientific. I can only hope that they see the error of their ways in due course. Regarding the different copies, Jackie, there are actually very good reasons why they do this and Ill try to explain. Its kind of the same reason that Apple has now discontinued support for the 32-bit architecture featured in their 2007 MacBook machines. The legacy code which needs to be retained in order to retain compatibility was actually impeding development. Also theres another reason why this was done. The instruction sets supported by the processors themselves in a true 64-bit environment wouldnt have supported the 32-bit software architecture for too much longer. Consider, Jackie. There are two versions of Windows itself, as you know I am sure. But my point is that Microsoft is still clinging to the old 32-bit and, in some cases, even older legacy code. Windows is riddled by old and outdated libraries which hold the systems back. When Microsoft sees fit to do a total rewrite of Windows, users will see a huge benefit because system performance will dramatically improve. Screen-readers are quite high-intensive processes. Freedom actually doe deserve credit for creating a native 64-bit application. I own copies of both Window-Eyes 8.4 and Supernova 13.5. They work well enough but if and when all of the old trash code is ever dumped, it would probably result in infinitely more stable and robust applications. Kind regards <--- Gordon Smith ---> <[email protected]> Information Technology Accessibility Consultant; Providing Help & Support To Young People LivingWith Visual Impairment, plus Braille Transcription services. On 9 Dec 2013, at 08:43, Jackie Brown <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Gordon Oh I have a real soap-box with Freedom, and it is this. You can buy two versions of JAWS, Standard and Professional. But if you download it, there is only the one version for either 32 or 64 bit, right? Now, when you install whichever bit version of the software on your computer, then the greed really kicks in. Your version of Windows determines which version you take, Standard or Professional. So while Standard and Professional are one and the same, FS have written it so that your version of the Microsoft OS determines what you install. Window-Eyes is different in that regard, as is Supernova and NVDA. The one copy fits all with those screenreaders, but not for greedy FS's JAWS. In addition, JAWS takes the locking code from your PC once it is installed, so if you make any hardware changes like adding RAM or another HD, JAWS cops out and you are back to demo mode. You then have to put another key on from your count, or ask FS to reset the number of keys you have back to the designated three. They will only do this for you under certain circumstances, for example, not less than six months. I think this whole gravy train thing is outrageous. They charge you for upgrades that do very little, and only tend to fix things that have been broken in previous versions. You can't do computer maintenance like adding or removing memory without JAWS authorisation being affected, yet the program is one and the same thing whether you have Standard or Pro, yet the price is a lot different. So perhaps you can see why I really dislike their practice, even though I do use JAWS myself, and why my position as an employee of the UK distributor was severely compromised because I felt the blind community were basically being ripped off. Rant over you will be glad to know! (smile). Kind regards, Jackie Brown Twitter: @thebrownsplace Skype: Thejackmate -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith Sent: 08 December 2013 12:50 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: Re: App Evaluation: Seeing Eye GPS: Three Organizations,One Stellar Effort! - AccessWorldR - November 2013 Hi Jackie The current price of Jaws is £745.00 as quoted by Sight and Sound on Friday last. I believe that the US price is $999.00 which would actually work out about equal to the £745.00 which I was quoted. I was also quoted a nice £195.00 for the Jaws SMA which, to be honest, is outrageous. Almost two hundred quid for either 2 version upgrades or however many Freedom sees fit to release in a year. I think thats how it works, but I could be wrong there. I dont know why these things have to be so damned expensive. I just dont buy the argument that they have to meet development costs. All the hundreds of thousands of copies of Jaws which they have sold over the years, they must be making a very tidy profit. Also, I would have thought that they would be more than just a little worried about products like NVDA which, in the case of NVDA in particular, are now attracting so many former users of other products because NVDA is both free and extremely functional these days. I am only looking at Jaws because it is by var and away superior to all other products Ive trie working with in the Duxbury Braille Translator environment. Like Mary, much of my work nowadays is in that software environment as 95% of my work involvers Braille transcription and error correcting of scanned main stream printed educational material. Both my work and the translation itself have to be accurate. Thats not a matter of choice, its a Must. One cannot expect teachers to tolerate inaccuracy in the Braille products which they give to their pupils and Id be pretty soon in trouble were I not to work to a very high standard. Im going to try the Tiger BTS suite shortly to see how well that works. I know it isnt as functional as Duxbury in some respects, but I have a ViewPlus EmBraille embosser so I get a free license. Nothing to lose. Kind regards <--- Gordon Smith ---> <[email protected]> Information Technology Accessibility Consultant; Providing Help & Support To Young People LivingWith Visual Impairment, plus Braille Transcription services. Telephone: United Kingdom: Free Phone: 0800 8620538 Mobile: +44 7907 823971 Europe and other non-specified: +44 1642 688095 Or: +44 1642 941776 United States Of America And Canada: +1 646 9151493 Or: +1 209 436 9443 Australasia: +61 38 8205930 Or: +61 39 0284505 Fax: +44 1642 365123 Follow Us On Twitter: <http://twitter.com/maciosaccess> Skype: <skype:mac-access-dot-net?call> ------------------------------ On 6 Dec 2013, at 16:58, Jackie Brown <[email protected]> wrote: And have a nice 40% mark-up too when you buy JAWS from the UK dealer. I get fed up with it as well Gordon! Kind regards, Jackie Brown Twitter: @thebrownsplace Skype: Thejackmate -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith Sent: 06 December 2013 13:40 To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! Subject: RE: App Evaluation: Seeing Eye GPS: Three Organizations,One Stellar Effort! - AccessWorldR - November 2013 Hi Jackie, Dane and all Here here! This is one of those issues which really gets up my nose! I see absolutely no reason why some companies and entities in the US and Canada seem to believe that those of us who reside overseas are second class citizens, and they refuse to make products and services available to us. I can think of several examples of this immediately. Freedom Scientific and GW Micro will not allow us to buy and receive products on line. We have to waste time going through the old boy network, and buy from dealers who for the most part also only ship products via snale-mail. Another shining example of this in the main stream is Avid. I have tried several times to buy ProTools on line. I can buy it, yes. But not the download edition. I have to wait for boxed products, and pay the additional delivery costs. Sorry for the rant, but as I say, this is one issue which really gets me annoyed. Kind Regards Gordon Smith Information Technology Accessibility consultant Providing Support For Young People Living With Sight Loss: Advice On Accessible Information Technologies And Braille Transcription Services. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jackie Brown" <[email protected] To: "'Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm!'" <[email protected] Date sent: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 09:11:12 -0000 Subject: RE: App Evaluation: Seeing Eye GPS: Three Organizations, One Stellar Effort! 3No, it isn't available in the UK either to my knowledge. Come on guys, let's have it! (smile). Unfortunately this App doesn't appear to be available in Australia, has anyone on list tried this and if so what do they think? Read the evaluation below. ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> --------------------------------------- ======================================= The Techno-Chat E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit for forum's dedicated web pages located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/techno-chat You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Techno-Chat group at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/techno-chat/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. The feed is at: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> ---------------------------------------
