It is what I have been saying. There is NO scientific evidence that this is
human spread. That involves work, including a control, and test group. After a
conclusion has been reached, the experiment must be able to be repeated,
several times, with the same results to support the original hypothesis. That
humans as a vector of WNS? Prove it.
It's much much easier to close caves, decontaminate your clothing, and
then say that you've done all that you can, when even your hair probably
carries the spores of WNS. Unless you want to cave in disposable gear, so that
each time you enter the cave, you have on fresh, sterile, spore free gear, the
effort is futile. How many can say that they have immersed their expensive
caving helmet and lamp in decontaminant each and every time before they go into
a cave? Washed your cave suit lately? You bet you have! Made you feel good that
you were doing your part to contain WNS. BIG PROBLEM- you just put it back into
the same dirty tote you got it out of. May look clean but guess again. You must
put your stuff in a bag that has not touched any other surface suspected of
carrying spores. That includes the back of your pick up truck you threw your
expensive dusty caving helmet and gear into.. How many have decontaminated
their vehicles? Tires, carpet, upholstery, roof liner, it all carries the same
dirt from the last cave you were in. How about the dirt under your fingernails?
Scrubbed your hands in decontaminate lately? Really scrubbed under those
fingernails? You wash your hands, then pick up caving gear, decontaminate it,
then pick it up again. Your gear is now dirty again because you just touched
decontaminated gear with fingernails that still contain dirt under them, i.e.
spores, if you ever had any in the first place.
Now, does this sound completely and totally impossible to do? Yes it is.
Therefore, the entire idea of decontaminating your gear is equally just a "feel
good" measure. Pick up any medical book on sterile technique, then come back
and still support the idea of field decontamination. It doesn't work. Same as a
petition.
Some individuals need a "cause". Seems like the person mentioned below has
found theirs, with complete disregard to fact or practicality.
By the way, suppose you close all the caves? What are you going to do- stop
the bats from going into them? Tell them to wipe their feet? How about a warm
devon bath before flying out? Or that they are
restricted to just one cave?
The entire thought is as ludicrous as a petition to close caves,
decontamination, or any other hypothesis that is not supported by scientific,
reproducible results.
Pissing in the wind, tilting at windmills, call it what you like.
All of this is simply emotion based bad science.
Carl…….
On Apr 13, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Stephen Fleming wrote:
> Total waste of time.
>
> CBD does not care one whit about public opinion. They are driven by the fact
> that they can reap millions in litigation.
>
> This is all about money, lots of it, and nothing more.
>
> Furthermore, whoever this guy Dunham is, he continues the misinformation by
> repeating (helpfully, to the CBD cause) that humans are a vector. That has
> never been demonstrated with any scientific evidence, after 6+ years of it
> being endlessly repeated as fact.
>
> Until the agencies grow a set and tell the CBD to go eff itself, nothing is
> going to change.
>
> Everything about the petition is 'feel good' and appealing to
> emotion/caver-logic viewpoint, and the pleas contained therein are of no
> interest to the politicos or litigants. Money talks; cavers are not even a
> blip on the money screen.
>
> Anyone who thinks the White House really thinks your opinion is important on
> any petition of this sort only needs to view prior petitions on any topic of
> your choosing to see how they pretty much all turn out. This is pissing in
> the wind.
>
>
> On 04/13/2012 12:31, Kathy Peerman wrote:
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> Subject: Petition to keep public caves open to the public
>>>
>>> As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all
>>> public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open.
>>> This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when
>>> responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the
>>> bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can
>>> be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever
>>> existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to
>>> conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science,
>>> and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this
>>> cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open.
>>>
>>> https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> John Dunham
>
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