Peter,
Very well stated!
On Apr 14, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Peter Jones wrote:
> Mike et al: I have a comment to make on what you just suggested and I agree
> with you 100%. Years ago when the battle was on in Congress over the removal
> of lands from mineral exploration (drilling for oil) north of the CACA NP
> boundary because of Lech, I actually went to visit four congress people in
> Washington, DC. I was already in the area because of doing some craft shows
> just north of DC, so took an extra day and made appointments to visit some
> Senators and Representatives. The only real Senator I got to see was
> Domenici back when he was still in office. I also visited Bingaman's office
> (I think that's whose it was) and those of two of my senators from Maine. It
> was enlightening in many ways. For one thing, I was probably one of the only
> actual citizens (as opposed to corporate lobbyists, lawyers and other
> cutthroat scum that passes for citizens) who came in to speak my mind on the
> issue directly to congress people. Domenici seemed mildly amused that
> someone other than a lawyer/lobbyist came in, but there I was, a caver,
> loaded with my own photos to illustrate the beauty that is Lech as an example
> of what would be lost if the unthinkable occurred. I think the associate I
> met with in Bingaman's office was livid that I was wasting her important time
> by *being a mere citizen* and addressing my grievances to her. I can still
> see her flared nostrils over the insolence of trying to express my views
> about saving Lech!! Anyway, my two senators from Maine seemed very
> interested as I was likely the only
> person from Maine to even bring it up.
>
> I realize that in regards to that issue that we didn't quite get everything
> we wished for. Yates still drilled, hit a dry hole and plugged it up with no
> damage to known caves. Considering all that, we lucked out. Now we face a
> different threat that comes in the form of legal people trying, for better or
> worse, to save bats. They do so by laying the blame of the spread of the
> disease directly at our feet. At least we agree with them that the spread of
> the disease is bad, but where we disagree is that it is spread by a human
> vector. If they're going to mount a legal attack on us, I agree that we need
> to respond to them in kind. Very few of us are lawyers, but that doesn't
> mean that we can't approach our own senators and representatives with our own
> responses to their attack. We need to agree that the spread of WNS is
> terrible and that we are doing all we can to prevent it through our own
> self-imposed decon- strategies, but be forceful in saying that the human
> vector has not been proven anywhere by anybody. Clearly the closing of caves
> is more detrimental to them (the article on Fern, for example, is a good
> illustration) than allowing for controlled visits. If we don't make that
> point to them, we will lose out to CBD without a fight. If all caves are
> closed to everyone, that's like having a fire and locking out all the firemen
> to put it out!!
>
> There is no reason why we can't use our constitutional rights to address our
> senators and representatives about what the CBD is doing. As you said, Mike,
> it's the numbers and we have far more of them than CBD does at the moment.
>
> Peter
>
>
> <SITDCP Card 2010.tif>
>
> On Apr 14, 2012, at 12:48 PM, Mike Bilbo wrote:
>
>> From what I know, Washington pretty much ignores petitions, but doesn't hurt
>> to sign - just in case. Personal letters are better but the main thing that
>> happens there by staffers is they just get quantified in statistics by
>> subject and keywords and presented to Congress as percentages on issues, yea
>> or nay &c, which could merit discussion. These days, it's people with
>> political connections and officers of organizations who might be able able
>> to get through. A basic strategy is you got to go meet with your
>> Congressional Delegation - go to the offices in person, and maybe the
>> congressperson or senator will actually be it. But the staffers will talk
>> to you and that's the best chance - you might end up on the phone in person.
>>
>> But the Center for Biological Travesty strategy here is interesting and
>> creative (in war, strategies count) - since they already lost a lawsuit on
>> these lines big-time, they are taking it to the Council on Environmental
>> Quality, which was created by the National Environmental Policy Act. Uh oh
>> - it doesn't matter whether you got a liberal or conservative
>> administration, CEQ and NEPA can really impact the situation - that council
>> and that law sure can. It's a good law and sure am glad Nixon got it
>> through, but it can be brought to bear in some very serious ways. Next -
>> CBD and their supportive allies are doing way more than just a petition:
>> lobbying and personal meetings with congressional delegations. Strategies.
>>
>> So, what shall the Cavers' and other reasonable citizens' strategy(ies) be?
>> Nope, you can't just sign a petition and that's it. We got way more work to
>> do.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> From: Kathy Peerman <[email protected]>
>> To: Karl Wilson <[email protected]>; Kathy Peerman
>> <[email protected]>; Mike Lorimer <[email protected]>; Hank Boudinot
>> <[email protected]>; Mike Dimatteo <[email protected]>; Bob
>> Rodgers <[email protected]>; Stephanie Regan <[email protected]>; Justin
>> Peinado <[email protected]>; David Winnett <[email protected]>;
>> Evelyn Townsend <[email protected]>; Wayne Walker <[email protected]>;
>> Robert Wood <[email protected]>; Jackie Horton <[email protected]>; Jeff
>> Bach <[email protected]>; Dave Gose <[email protected]>; John Collins
>> <[email protected]>; Luke Peerman <[email protected]>; Scott
>> Anderson <[email protected]>; Ashley Smith <[email protected]>;
>> Mike Bilbo <[email protected]>; Kenny Stabinsky <[email protected]>; Lee
>> Wilson <[email protected]>; Kate Bach <[email protected]>; Robert
>> Foster <[email protected]>; Margaret Wilson <[email protected]>; Lee
>> Stevens <[email protected]>; Allen Wright <[email protected]>; Grady
>> Viramontes <[email protected]>; Cordie Ross <[email protected]>;
>> Gary Grogg <[email protected]>; Don Martin <[email protected]>; Steve
>> Peerman <[email protected]>; Andy Eby <[email protected]>; Hadley Robinson
>> <[email protected]>; Mike Bilbo (home) <[email protected]>; Janice Tucker
>> <[email protected]>; Jeff Lory <[email protected]>; Lawrence Foreman
>> <[email protected]>; Arvel Thomas <[email protected]>; John
>> Moses <[email protected]>; Larry Foreman <[email protected]>; Stephen
>> Fleming <[email protected]>; Bill Godby <[email protected]>; Michael
>> McWhirter <[email protected]>; Mailing List for SWR <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:31 PM
>> Subject: Fwd: Petition to keep public caves open to the public
>>
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> Date: April 13, 2012 9:16:01 AM MDT
>>> To: [email protected], [email protected],
>>> [email protected], [email protected]
>>> Bcc: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Petition to keep public caves open to the public
>>>
>>> Hey, all,
>>>
>>> As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all
>>> public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open.
>>> This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when
>>> responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the
>>> bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can
>>> be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever
>>> existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to
>>> conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science,
>>> and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this
>>> cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open.
>>>
>>> https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> John Dunham
>>
>> Kathy Peerman
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SWR mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
>
Kathy Peerman
[email protected]
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