Acronyms can be a bit of a mystery unless you follow the trail. CBD = Center for Biological Diversity. Their job is to save endangered or threatened species and, therefore, bats with white nose syndrome. Linda Starr
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Kristopher Megahan < [email protected]> wrote: > What is the CBD?**** > > ** ** > > *Kristopher D. Megahan* > > Technical Director**** > > Magnablend, Inc.**** > > (972) 938-2028 ext. 3218**** > > (469) 337-8637 mobile**** > > [email protected]**** > > ** ** > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf > Of *wilsons > *Sent:* Sunday, April 15, 2012 5:38 PM > *To:* Stephen Fleming; Peter Jones > *Cc:* Robert Foster; Evelyn Townsend; Bill Godby; John Collins; Don > Martin; John Moses; Lee Wilson; Justin Peinado; Mailing List for SWR; Larry > Foreman; Margaret Wilson; Jeff Bach; Luke Peerman; Stephanie Regan; Hadley > Robinson; Kate Bach; Robert Wood; Lawrence Foreman; Hank Boudinot; Cordie > Ross; Mike Bilbo; Bob Rodgers; Scott Anderson; Jeff Lory; David Winnett; > Ashley Smith; Michael McWhirter; Grady Viramontes; Jackie Horton; Arvel > Thomas; Dave Gose; Mike Bilbo; Kenny Stabinsky > *Subject:* Re: [SWR] Keeping public lands caves open to the public - > strategies needed**** > > ** ** > > I know I have missed much of this discussion and my comments are not new. > **** > > ** ** > > Has anyone from the caving community actually contacted CBD about their > demands for complete closure to everyone? **** > > Perhaps this would be an opportunity to reach out and work with another > conservation organization and help shape policy from the inside (where we > thought we were).**** > > ** ** > > Karl**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Stephen Fleming <[email protected]> > *To:* Peter Jones <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Mike Bilbo <[email protected]>; Kathy Peerman < > [email protected]>; Karl Wilson <[email protected]>; Mike > Lorimer <[email protected]>; Hank Boudinot <[email protected]>; Mike > Dimatteo <[email protected]>; Bob Rodgers <[email protected]>; > Stephanie Regan <[email protected]>; Justin Peinado <[email protected]>; > David Winnett <[email protected]>; Evelyn Townsend < > [email protected]>; Wayne Walker <[email protected]>; Robert Wood < > [email protected]>; Jackie Horton <[email protected]>; Jeff Bach < > [email protected]>; Dave Gose <[email protected]>; John Collins < > [email protected]>; Luke Peerman <[email protected]>; Scott > Anderson <[email protected]>; Ashley Smith <[email protected]>; > Mike Bilbo <[email protected]>; Kenny Stabinsky <[email protected]>; > Lee Wilson <[email protected]>; Kate Bach <[email protected]>; > Robert Foster <[email protected]>; Margaret Wilson < > [email protected]>; Lee Stevens <[email protected]>; Allen > Wright <[email protected]>; Grady Viramontes <[email protected]>; > Cordie Ross <[email protected]>; Gary Grogg <[email protected]>; > Don Martin <[email protected]>; Steve Peerman <[email protected]>; > Andy Eby <[email protected]>; Hadley Robinson <[email protected]>; Janice > Tucker <[email protected]>; Jeff Lory <[email protected]>; Lawrence > Foreman <[email protected]>; Arvel Thomas < > [email protected]>; John Moses <[email protected]>; Larry Foreman > <[email protected]>; Bill Godby <[email protected]>; Michael McWhirter > <[email protected]>; Mailing List for SWR <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Saturday, April 14, 2012 4:52 PM > *Subject:* Re: [SWR] Keeping public lands caves open to the public - > strategies needed**** > > > On 04/14/2012 15:26, Peter Jones wrote: > > It was enlightening in many ways. For one thing, I was probably one of > the only actual citizens (as opposed to corporate lobbyists, lawyers and > other cutthroat scum that passes for citizens) who came in to speak my mind > on the issue directly to congress people. > > Very few voters ever do this. I have, and it is way more effective than > signing petitions that will be answered with a "thank you for writing" > reply, but usually nothing more accomplished. > > > Domenici seemed mildly amused that someone other than a lawyer/lobbyist > came in... I think the associate I met with in Bingaman's office was livid > that I was wasting her important time by *being a mere citizen* and > addressing my grievances to her. I can still see her flared nostrils over > the insolence of trying to express my views about saving Lech!! > > Many elected officials now hold town hall meetings as either irregular or > recurring events. If they are not pre-structured to preclude live > statements, that is a place to ask things you want to know or make a point. > > While it may be thrilling to walk into the Capitol to see some official, > most cannot do that simply due to logistics and economics. And, while it > also may be satisfying to speak to the actual official, it usually is > easier (both from a time perspective and availability) to cultivate an > ongoing relationship with a staffer in a local office. It is the staff that > performs the vetting and that has the time to hear more than a sound bite. > Furthermore, since the staff come from the local areas, they can have a > better insight into issues and the public pulse than the official may have. > If you get them interested, your chances of getting the official interested > are that much greater. > > I know. I have wandered the halls of Congress like Peter did, meeting with > 3 elected officials. I also have spoken at length with a staffer in > Albuquerque and that eventually led to a private meeting with the official > when he was in-state on a legislative break. None of this had anything to > do with caving, and was almost 20 years ago, but the process is way more > effective than sending original or form letters, or signing petitions. > However, it does take a lot more effort than clicking on a petition. > > And just because an official's political orientation may not be to your > liking does not mean you shouldn't wade in. Hold your nose if you have to. > Do not ever assume you won't make progress. > > Now, with the WNS stupidity, local knowledge isn't all that much of an > issue (because this is an eastern problem, knee-jerked locally), except to > get somebody to listen to the facts, look at the pathology-geography, the > lack of demonstrable evidence from either researchers or the CBD, and come > to the conclusion that the threat is overstated, unproven, and grossly > misrepresented; and that reactions by the agencies are based on hysteria > and fear, not science or good judgment. > > What would be the most important blow would be to get a Senator or > Congressman (or several) to demand that the agencies produce the scientific > proof upon which they have taken the closure actions and instituted the > decon procedures. What you want is a requirement for them to show, when the > agencies cannot deliver the data that doesn't exist, why they think they > can shut off access and require questionable processes on the basis of > someone (the CDB) screaming the loudest. Fear-based action is not > management. What will they do when the CBD determines "there is some > evidence" (as they do with the WNS human vector theory) we may get hit by a > meteor and demands equally arcane and insupportable actions? > > Heck, cavers can demand this themselves directly from the agencies. Just > be prepared for a total brush off as they are more afraid of the CBD than > they ever will be of you, and will be loathe to admit they have taken an > action to exclude public use of public land on the basis of "no basis". > However, it is a good place to start. You have far more influence than > likely any of you are aware. Why do you think some issues get attention and > others don't? Those that do almost always are driven by local folks getting > and staying fired up. Get your data request (those would be FOIA requests > folks) rejections in hand and then go see your elected officials or their > staffs. > > > > I realize that in regards to that issue that we didn't quite get > everything we wished for. > > You never will. But, you can get a lot. > > > If they're going to mount a legal attack on us, I agree that we need to > respond to them in kind. > > I know what you are saying, but it also needs saying the CBD is not > interested in attacking us (not even the NSS). There's no money in it. > Directly contacting the CBD with impassioned pleas, logic or anything else > is a waste of time. They do not care what any of us think, nor do they have > to. The agencies are a different matter entirely. While they need to be > responding to legitimate public interests and questions, they are totally > cowed (definition: cause (someone) to submit to one's wishes by > intimidation) by the CBD. So, the agencies are going to please the CBD, not > the public. It's that lack of a spine and lack of leadership thing and will > be so until they fear the public more than the CBD....which is where a bit > of political intrigue is helpful. > > > > Very few of us are lawyers, but that doesn't mean that we can't > approach our own senators and representatives with our own responses to > their attack. > > Yep. > > > We need to agree that the spread of WNS is terrible and that we are > doing all we can to prevent it through our own self-imposed decon- > strategies, but be forceful in saying that the human vector has not been > proven anywhere by anybody. > > Saying there is no evidence, but continuing to perform decon processes > foisted upon you by idiots and of no demonstrable efficacy (oh, it works > because there is no WNS to deal with...thus remarkable, yea 100%, success), > indicates acceptance of the folly and sends a signal you accept the notable > lack of even the tinest shred of evidence of a human vector. You either > don't believe the hype or you do. In the total absence of scientific > evidence of either a vector or decon efficacy, there is no reason to play > the game. Just refuse to do it. What are they going to do? Shut you out of > the caves? Seems that already has happened. Stop being the victim. > > > Clearly the closing of caves is more detrimental to them (the article on > Fern, for example, is a good illustration) than allowing for controlled > visits. If we don't make that point to them, we will lose out to CBD > without a fight. > > You've already lost. You have to remember the CBD doesn't care about you, > or the caves. They only care, purportedly (though settlement awards say > otherwise) about the biology. > > But, your statement implies a most curious argument. "We have to be > allowed in the caves in order to save them". Really? That's just as > specious as a human vector. On the other hand, how does allowing > "controlled visits" mean the lack of visits is anything other than total > control? The fact that you may be given a permit has no bearing on someone > not inclined to obtain one as to whether they go in or not. Then there is > that contingent of cavers that would be ecstatic if no one went into caves > (except themselves, of course). The real issue is that we need access to > caves (at least on public land) because it is a public resource and the > public implicitly has a right of access. > > > If all caves are closed to everyone, that's like having a fire and > locking out all the firemen to put it out!! > > That pretty well describes the NPS model of cave management vis-à-vis > letting the public go caving. > > > > > > There is no reason why we can't use our constitutional rights to address > our senators and representatives about what the CBD is doing. As you said, > Mike, it's the numbers and we have far more of them than CBD does at the > moment. > > Well, you know what to do....everybody get busy. Start by flooding BLM > with numerous FOIAs. Concentrate the effort on a single agency. When they > reply, but not with what you asked for, dun them again. The others will > fold as it becomes apparent their ruse no longer works (but settle in for a > long wait). > > **** > > ------------------------------ > The information contained in or accompanying this e-mail is intended for > the use of the stated recipient and may contain information that is > confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or > the agent thereof, you have received this e-mail in error and any use, > dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us > immediately at [email protected], and completely delete this > message from your system. > > > _______________________________________________ > SWR mailing list > [email protected] > http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net > >
_______________________________________________ SWR mailing list [email protected] http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
