Not a problem Fritz, you are now added, send emails to [email protected]
On 1/15/08, Fritz Holt <[email protected]> wrote: > > Charles, > > I didn't need much encouragement, so how do I get signed up for the OT > list? I would hate to miss out on a few jabs at some of Locklear's and > other's posts. I would hope that you could do it for me as I am not to adept > on this new-fangled thing called a computer and my wife say's that I sure > can't take instructions. > > Fritz, (Using the geezer excuse). > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:46 PM > *To:* Fritz Holt > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] OTtex vs. Cavetex > > > > Thank you the support Fritz and I personally enjoy your wit on the mailing > list, please do join the OT, just when you have a OT reply to something from > the cavetex list, send it to the OT for us to enjoy :) > > Charles > > On 1/15/08, *Fritz Holt* <[email protected]> wrote: > > Charles, > > I like the post content of the list just as it is, with few exceptions. I > have not requested to be put on the OT list as I spend too much time on this > one as it is. I will probably be much more silent by staying on topic, which > may be a little difficult. I mostly enjoy commenting or wise-cracking on > others posts and recounting earlier experiences as my caving is now very > infrequent. Most of my caving (spelunking) was done in the 50's and 60's. I > have no criticism of your work, please keep it up. > > Fritz > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:59 AM > *To:* wesley s > *Cc:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] OTtex vs. Cavetex > > > > Wes, this mailing has never been moderated, even long before I volunteered > to host it. Back when Bill Bentley asked for a volunteer to take over it, > I'm pretty sure that I'm the only one who did volunteer. I host this list > out of my own pocket, I'm not paid to do it, and it certainly does cost me a > few dollars a month to do so, plus time spent taking care of the few > administrative tasks. I even paid for the transfer of the domain from Bill, > reimbursed him for payments he had pre-paid on the hosting, and also picked > up the old cavetex.net domain when it became available, all out of my own > pocket. > > Wes, I've never seen you offer to donate any cash to help with this cause, > a few people have, and I've politely turned them down. I do this as a > service to the caving community, it's my way of giving back. Why didn't you > volunteer to host and admin this list when asked? > > I'm damned well not going to be told how to run this list by a single > person. If the community as a whole wants to change things, we will, but I > won't moderate it, someone else will have to step up to host, admin and then > moderate. You don't dictate to me how things are run, try it again and > you'll be gone quicker than you can say huh. That goes for anyone else that > wants to complain how I host it. > > Now, don't get me wrong, I'm mostly an easy going guy, but until someone > else puts the work into it, I'm not going to be criticized on how things are > done here. > > No one has asked to be unsubscribed from this list to be put on the OT > one, it's setup as a secondary list for the people that want to use it. I > did not and will not copy the subscriber list from this list over to OT, it > will have to be a voluntary subscription on everyones part that wants to > join in at OT. > > Everyone, please review the recommendations on > http://texascavers.com/about.html about posting here, that includes this > email thread, but I'm going to post this anyway to everyone, just so that > they know the facts. > > Also, keep in mind, I'm not asking for money, I never have and probably > never will, I just want everyone to be aware of the circumstances. > > If you have questions about any of this, please reply off list to me. > Thanks > Charles > > On 1/15/08, *wesley s* <[email protected]> wrote: > > Divisive to say the least! This is like a political party schism. The > attempt to purge the unwanted instigators will only weaken the group as a > whole and create more animosity on the part of the fence sitters who stayed > out of the argument but generally support the system. This is a really half > assed solution if you ask me. > > Yes we could ask every caver to delete his/her inbox full of OT posts and > be done with it but this relies on too many people's adherence to a logical > course action. Furthermore it is, as has already been stated, effectively > spam. This sort of activity has been tolerated far too long and the creation > of this new listserv is pandering to the perpetrators in order to not be > accused of censorship. Unfortunately censoring is exactly what should be > done. The list populous has made it abundantly clear that they do not > appreciate the off topic rants and threads and wishes there to be some sort > of regulation of this listserv. Why, Charles Goldsmith, have you elected to > be so lax? > > "While I host this mailing list, I let you folks moderate it, I'm not > going to. If I get enough people complaining about one or more users, I'll > send out a warning email, outlining the rules and asking to please stop. If > it continues, I'll remove you from the list, that simple. However, out of > all of this, I have yet to receive any emails about it, I think the > community took care of itself in this matter." > > If you are unable or unwilling to be a moderator for this listserv than we > need to find someone who is and have this thing moderated like all the > others on the great wide web. There is a reason why moderators are a > ubiquitous feature on listserves. Humans wander in their thoughts and if > they are posting to a topic limited list they are bound to stray off topic. > That is where the moderator comes in and steers the individual or thread > back on course. And passive moderating does not work! > > "These topics seem to run their courses over a short period of time, but I > do think that some of them should be answered off list to the person > directly." > > This is not a solution! It is lethargy. And furthermore the audacity of > those individuals who attempt to link their topic by six degrees of > separation to caving somehow are not fooling anyone. We know you're trying > to mask the issue. > > Perhaps those individuals who simply want to have wild, broad discussions > about anything and everything would be better served by a separate listserv > but I hardly think they are a large enough group to sustain a separate list. > Consequently they will come back and continue posting OT emails to Cavetex. > > We need regulation. Not because it is necessary to stifle entertaining > discussions and keep caver thought and opinions in line, but because it is > discourteous to the entire subscribership to let the posts become more than > say 30% off topic. I enjoy some of these threads as much as Kara and others, > and anyone who knows me knows how anti authoritarian my views are, but in > the name of keeping our subscribers and preserving a place for caver > information exchange on the internet please rein in these individuals. > > > > Wes~ > > > > >
