Thank you Jeremy! That is really good! I think 5.2.x will be an elegant new generation as I follow discussions, ideas and proposals on GitHub. There are good experiences and huge amount of feedback in forum and GitHub on TW 5.1.xx.
Stay healthy! Mohammad p.s: I really like to have a set of clean and flexible filters! I think important core widgets like $list may need to be carefully evaluated and get proper improvement for a simple and flexible scripting in TW 5.2.x On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 10:06:52 PM UTC+3:30 [email protected] wrote: > Hi Mohammad > > Many thanks for clarification! So, there are obstacles and limitations > for having a microkernel Tiddlywiki. > > > Just factors that hadn’t been discussed so far, it’s a good discussion. > > I meant to add to my earlier reply that I do plan to do something similar > for v5.2.x in that I’d like to move obsolete and deprecated components into > an optional plugin. It won’t necessarily have a huge impact on the size of > the core, but it will make it simpler and easier to understand. > > Best wishes > > Jeremy. > > > > Best wishes > Mohammad > > On Friday, November 6, 2020 at 9:21:33 PM UTC+3:30 [email protected] > wrote: > >> The idea of stripping TiddlyWiki down to a microkernel and making >> everything be a plugin comes up fairly frequently, and seems to be an idea >> with some appeal. >> >> One factor that hasn’t been mentioned so far is that the microkernel >> architecture would make testing and support a good deal more complicated. >> Core developers and plugin authors would have to test against all the >> common combinations of core plugins. Every single support enquiry would >> have to be prefaced by a discussion to find out exactly what combination of >> plugins the user has. >> >> Of course, to some extent we have this problem already because we already >> have plugins. But right now the goal for the core is for it to contain not >> the bare minimum possible functionality, but rather the functionality that >> has the potential to be universally useful. That broader criteria means >> that the core itself is sufficient for a lot of work with TiddlyWiki, >> making the life of users and developers a lot easier. >> >> A consideration that has already been mentioned is whether it really >> matters that the core gets big, especially now that we’re in a world where >> a simple news story weighs 20MB. There are valid concerns about slow >> networks but the best solution there is to set the server up with GZip >> compression because it will benefit the content in the wiki too. >> >> As to why TW5 is larger than TWC, it’s really just because TW5 has so >> much more functionality beyond the basic user experience that both systems >> share. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Jeremy. >> >> On 5 Nov 2020, at 00:36, TW Tones <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Mark, >> >> As I understand it this is already possible. External Javascript. >> >> I also wonder if one could selectively remove code not used, however this >> would need an analysis process. And an exclusion on save, perhaps an >> alternate core plugin. >> >> The dynamic range of application of tiddlywiki would possibly be enhanced >> with a lower size however in todays world we most often have sufficient >> overheads that reduction has less benefit than being comprehensive or self >> documented. >> >> Regards >> Tony >> >> On Thursday, 5 November 2020 08:12:12 UTC+11, Mark S. wrote: >>> >>> If TW5 could be made to run like javascript, then you could separate the >>> core from the working files. So you could have a local core library which >>> all your tiddlywiki files could resource, without having to include them in >>> every download/upload/save. >>> >>> On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 11:00:21 PM UTC-8, Mohammad wrote: >>>> >>>> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the >>>> recent releases. >>>> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One >>>> question is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the >>>> below table >>>> >>>> Release Size (kb) >>>> 5.1.12 1820 >>>> 5.1.15 2025 >>>> 5.1.17 2033 >>>> 5.1.19 2153 >>>> 5.1.21 2235 >>>> 5.1.22 2197 >>>> 5.1.12 2282 >>>> >>>> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki can >>>> be? Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different >>>> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, >>>> before going to have bigger empty.html >>>> >>>> >>>> Suggestions >>>> *A. Use official plugins* >>>> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip >>>> everything extra) >>>> 2. Put extra features in official plugins >>>> >>>> *B. Start a new generation * >>>> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part) >>>> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx >>>> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes >>>> >>>> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest >>>> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward >>>> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx >>>> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile >>>> approach, like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi >>>> input filters) >>>> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout >>>> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved >>>> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub) >>>> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding) >>>> 6. ... >>>> >>>> I am sure people can suggest more here >>>> >>>> >>>> Best wishes >>>> Mohammad >>>> >>>> TW-Scripts <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Scripts/> codes, macros, and >>>> solutions in Tiddlywiki >>>> TW-Commander <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Commander/> bulk operations >>>> on tiddlers >>>> TW-Trashbin <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Trashbin/> a Tiddlywiki >>>> trashbin tool >>>> TW-Favorites <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Favorites/> a favorites and >>>> bookmarking tool >>>> TW-Todolist <https://kookma.github.io/TW-Todolist/> organize, >>>> prioritize, and plan your work >>>> >>>> https://github.com/kookma >>>> >>>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TiddlyWiki" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/849b14d2-cfa3-46b8-be83-3c68ce74c306o%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/849b14d2-cfa3-46b8-be83-3c68ce74c306o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TiddlyWiki" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/eb50d5f0-598f-43b3-88b1-a6293bd22869n%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/eb50d5f0-598f-43b3-88b1-a6293bd22869n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group. 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