Hi Mat
Thanks for the detailed feedback, it's been very useful.
> Ok, here are a few thoughts starting out with...
>
> Using Win7, FF19
>
> Current status:
>
> * I downloaded empty and launched. Is it supposed to show a gray page with
> only buttons [New] and [Save] and a This wiki is not encrypted [Set
> password]? And they appear arbitrarily scattered. No DefaultTiddler.
Yes, it's all a bit barebones at the moment. The plan is that there would
be a handholding wizard when you first open an empty TiddlyWiki5.
> * Clicking the password button and setting it, FF asks me "Would you like
> to remember the password on file://?" - maybe it's a FF issue but that
> location looks funny (ie "file://"). Or maybe it's just me. Either way, it
> looks as if some default path was not set.
>
Weird. I've no idea why Firefox doesn't display the full path to the file.
More to the point, if you elect to remember the password it doesn't
actually do so. I've therefore explicitly disabled autocomplete on the form
to prevent the confusing popup.
> * After setting the password, the page is still mostly gray. BTW, I really
> like having the option for a password as default!
> * Ok clicking [New], I get a glimpse of the layout but probably not
> intentionally; I understand that there is a left "frame" because the title
> "New Tiddler at Tue Mar 12 2013 18:01:55 GMT+0100" is so long that I get a
> horizontal scroll at left bottom. Maybe the date is not necessary in the
> left column? Not to mention the GMT stuff.
That weird tiddler title is constructed automatically for the temporary
draft tiddler that is created when you edit a tiddler. I've modified the
code so that now it generates titles of the form "Draft of 'New Tiddler'"
and "Draft 1 of 'New Tiddler'".
> * Clicking to set the tiddler title, I'd like it if the default text ("New
> tiddler") would disappear instead of me having to delete it manually.
> * Same with text.
>
Agreed. I've made a ticket for this one to fix it later:
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/74
> * I really like it that the tags field is above the text. I typically mod
> my TWs to get this.
> * Tags on site five.tiddlywiki.com are varis colors. Only gray in my test
> file. Maybe it's explained somewhere but the reason for the colors is not
> clear.
You need to create a tiddler with the title of the tag, and the field
"color" set to a hex colour like #ff342e. At the moment there's no way to
do that through the user interface though.
> * Buttons [Delete] and [Done] should probably be right aligned? And
> beatiful icons like in view mode.
>
Agreed.
> * I notice the "This wiki is encrypted"+buttons remain below the tiddler.
> Maybe these should be placed more discretely in lower left or lower right
> corner of page?
>
it's not very clear, but the idea is that the area at the bottom of the
page is acting as a sort of temporary control panel (the backstage in
classic TiddlyWiki). I've added some styling and a label to make things a
bit clearer.
> * Clicking [Done] gives an animatino that is a bit funny. It rapidly
> appears to shift down+right about an inch and back up again. No biggie but
> a bit odd. Same when clicking Edit icon.
Yes, both of those are intended to be replaced with flip-over animations in
due course.
> * Creating a few more tids and then clicking one of the prominent tags
> gives a menu/list. I think it is a bit of an overkill to repeat the tag in
> the top of that list as the very tagis visible just above the list. No
> biggie tho.
>
The idea is to make it easy to open the tiddler for the tag itself.
> * (Also a bit overkill to list the name of the very tiddler you're in. Why
> would you want to click that, from there?)
>
Classic TiddlyWiki does remove the name of the current tiddler from the
list, but I do sometimes find that behaviour confusing. I've created an
issue for the moment:
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/75
> * BTW, overall nice and clean appearence of site. Neutral gray background
> and clean white tids with slight shade for 3d. Nice Edit and Close icons.
>
Cool, glad you like them. The idea is for the core theme to be sparse and
simple, and as you've spotted, I'm trying to emphasise the appearance of
individual tiddlers.
> * Re-editing a tid, I miss a Cancel button.
>
Yes, I must put that back - there is already a ticket for it:
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/43
> * (...and, being a regular TW user, I can't help but wonder how all those
> other commands will be avalable, *link, references,* etc).
>
The intention is that it should be possible to set things up just like
classic TW, with lots of buttons and dropdowns at the top of each tiddler,
but my thinking is that the default theme should hide most complexity
behind a slide-out panel attached to each tiddler.
> * The animation when closing a tiddler made me smile :-)
>
Good, most people who mention the animations don't like them; it's
reassuring that some folks do.
> * Double click to edit seems disabled?
>
Yes, it'll be there in due course - the plan is also to have keyboard
navigation so that it's possible to edit tiddlers entirely with the
keyboard.
> * I like the drag/extend text field when in edit mode. (Wonder if it will
> function like that tiddlytools thing wh
>
I think you're just seeing the browser's default behaviour there. TW5 does
take some steps to automatically resize textareas to fit their content,
trying to avoid nested scrollbars, which I hate.
> * I do NOT like that newline/enter in edit mode is disregarded in view
> mode!
>
Aha, that's rather a key difference from the WikiText for TW5. Like
MarkDown, you must use two newlines to trigger a new paragraph. If you're
not familiar with MarkDown I'd encourage you to have a read of the syntax
guide at http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/syntax - TiddlyWiki5
isn't entirely compatible with MarkDown, but moves in that direction.
I do see that there needs to be a way of switching to the old mode,
otherwise it would be tedious to type poetry.
> * ...and I'm guessing thsi is why bullet lists must be preceded with an
> empty line?
>
Yes, that's right.
> * Maybe I just can't find it (there's no search) but how do I create a
> table in TW5?
>
It's the same syntax as classic TiddlyWiki.
> * (Now my original question in this thread becomes obvious: There's no
> menu - how do I access my closed tiddlers? (Hm, and writing links
>
> MainMenu SideBarTabs PageTemplate didn't give anything either). I assume
> this is just temporary of course.)
>
Yes, I'll add the menus back over the next couple of days.
> * Clicking [Save] gives popup message "Download changes / Your browser
> only supports manual saving [snip]". At bottom of popup theres link
> "Right-click to save changes" - so I'm supposed to right-click-download it
> from my own local copy? Is it some setting in FF
>
Yes, you are supposed to right-click-download from your local copy. It's
tedious but completely standards compliant. It gives us a fallback that
works on a wide range of devices. The idea is that regular users would use
an extension like TiddlyFox (or a forthcoming TiddlyChrome) to make things
more convenient where possible.
> * But, ok, right-click-save it is; In deed unrecognizable name (as
> described in popup). Renaming, save. This of course results in two files.
> * ...opening new file gives message "TiddlyFox: Do you want to enable
> TiddlyWiki file saving capability for file:///C:/.../tw5test.htm" (hm,
> haven't seen extension "htm" for a long time). I think I saw some
> discussion on TiddlyFox to make it so you don't have to answer this every
> time. Maybe I misunderstood it but, regardless, I hope this will be the
> case of course. (BTW in these opening steps I'm also asked to enter the
> password. Seems to work as intended and appears very tight/good.)
>
Yes, the latest TiddlyFox only asks for confirmation once for each
pathname. You can download it at:
https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/TiddlyFox/raw/master/tiddlyfox.xpi
> * Opening the new one still gives no access to previously made tiddlers.
>
* Some minor stress testing works well (Doing Ctrl+ and Ctrl-, some
> internatinoal characters, very long titles, )
>
Great stuff. Very long titles do look pretty terrible in some situations,
which needs fixing.
> * ...but, bug, it seems I can create multiple tiddlers with the same name.
> However, opening one for edit also opens the other one and only whichever
> is saved last sets what is actually saved.
>
Can you detail the steps you went through to do this?
> * Problem: tiddler column holds from top down tiddlers aaa, bbb and ccc.
> The last, ccc, is out of sight at bottom. All are tagged 'bbb'. Clicking on
> tag 'bbb' in aaa shows list, but clicking 'ccc' does not put focus on ccc.
>
I think that this has been recently fixed, could you kindly try again?
Further Thoghts/Ideas/wishes:
>
> * Much more transparent handling of fields. I (a non-coder) will elaborate
> if this is considered worthy of attention.
>
Yes, the plan is to present fields in an editable grid.
> * I wish there are more options from start/default. In classic TW there's
> options SaveBackups, EnableAnimations etc but there should really be many
> more. For instance:
> * CamelCase option. Actually, CamelCase is a technical vagary, convenient
> at times but distracting at others. Perhaps even better suited as a plugin.
> Or, if we want a general linking tool, then I think something like the
> autoweaving concept really makes more sense.
>
It is possible to turn off WikiLinks for a particular tiddler (and any
further tiddlers that it transcludes) by putting this at the top of the
tiddler text:
\rules except prettylink
Putting it at the top of the PageTemplate will disable wikilinks for all
displayed tiddlers.
> * Default behavior to prompt a question if user wants to update tags if
> the 'tagtiddler' is renamed. Otherwise you kill tags and you typically
> don't even know it.
> * ...and, actually, same thing for links in texts (ie. as seen in
> "references" in the toolbar menu).
>
Yes, the plan is to do both of those.
> * Optional "beginners mode". Turned on, there are links next to "critical
> parts" leading to help chapters in tw.org or other place. While one may
> argue that this is more suitable as a 'theme', a beginner is probably most
> likely to download the original file (only to get potentially frustratad).
>
I agree, TW5 needs to do a good deal of handholding to help users get up
and running. My goal is to make TW5 much more popular than the original,
and that requires making it much easier to use.
> * While discussing options, in classic TW there are many dead links
> particularly in the Options menu. Hope this will be avoided.
> * Options for what is to appear in SideBarMenu and tiddler Toolbars etc.
> Eg. should "new journal" be there? And even "close all"? And what about
> additional toolbar commands such as "done/close" (ie done AND close) and
> "cancel/close" etc
> (source)<http://mptw.tiddlyspot.com/#SaveCloseTiddlerPlugin%20CloseOnCancelPlugin%20NewMeansNewPlugin%20NewHerePlugin>.
> (Maybe this is all for a plugin - but then exactly what is justified to be
> core? "What the majority would like" is probably a decent starting point
> and I personally think something like "done/close" is a lot more usable and
> general than, say, "new journal".)
>
This is the area i'm just starting to look at. The goal is that the core
should be the simplest useful thing, with plugins readily available from a
central source.
> * Easier handling of tables than in classic tw. More wysiwyg I guess.
> Maybe something as easy(?) as being able to use tab key for spacing columns.
>
Yes, I've been watching the recent work that Vincent Yeh has done in this
area with great interest.
> * Functionality like PartTiddlerPlugin
> http://tiddlywiki.abego-software.de/#PartTiddlerPlugin (pretty links
> stopped working as I'm writing). Currently we're forced to include visible
> anchors (via "!") or use slices.
>
Noted.
> * Enhance sliders to be more like tiddlytools NestedSlidersPlugin. I think
> the slider macro is underused (partly due to complicated syntax) - they are
> very powerful from an explanatory point of view and allows you to present
> only relevant information and hide "deeper" information, accessible via a
> click.
>
TW5 has a small set of flexible widgets like <$button> and <$reveal> (with
more to come). The idea is that they can be composed together into macros
that provide a range of capabilities, including the familiar <<slider>> and
<<tabs>> macros of classic TW.
> Ok, hope someting is of value.
>
Very much so. A lot of your feedback is directly actionable, which is very
satisfying, and the rest is though provoking. Many thanks for your trouble,
Best wishes
Jeremy
>
> <:-)
>
--
Jeremy Ruston
mailto:[email protected]
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