On Jun 10, 4:59 am, Martin Budden <[email protected]> wrote: > like Chris, I don't like to distinguish between users and developers > in a software community. This is particularly true with TiddlyWiki > where the division between user and developer is especially blurred.
Martin, I agree with you and Chris in general that it should be up to individuals whatever their label might be to express their own opinions. I am normally reserved in this respect as well, and as an employer have been taken to task for many times for not being free enough with praise, so I have been made aware of this shortcoming. Perhaps now I may be too particularly aware of this need in people in my old age. However I felt the need to speak up in this instance because I thought it was a historical moment. Coming so soon after the implementation of jQuery into the core it was at least pleasantly surprising. I felt that those that argued for the jQuery inclusion would acknowledge it, not necessarily for Mark alone but as encouragement for others to attempt jQuery applications.as well. It is a partial vindication for the decision to include it in the core as well and is a notable event. Whether there is a divide between developers and users is a moot point. It is a fact that there are decisions made that are not known by users until it is offered to them as a fait accompli. The reasonably firm enforcement of sending anything that looks like a developers discussion to the developers group helps reinforce the apparent separation. While the reason to do so is meant to not clog the users group with developer talk it has the side effect of depriving the group of a lot of inclusiveness, insight and the knowledge they might gain simply by osmosis. I was very involved with the Treeview development nearly around the clock doing testing to help Mark speed his development and to find bugs that could only be found by trying it in an actual implementation. I did fear at any moment we might be chased off the users group but fortunately it didn't happen. Because it was interesting and exciting many users delighted in seeing a development in real time. And it encouraged Mark with the attention and interest shown and I think it was done in a remarkably shorter time than it would have had he been laboring alone in silence. Perhaps I was too close to it and felt unreasonably his achievement should have been acknowledged by those who made the decision to include jQuery in the core to make it possible. Nevertheless this may be a good time to see if a gap between groups is, or could be developing and nip it in the bud. TiddlyWiki is changing from what it was in the early days when there were many more developers populating the users group. History has shown that as an organization grows divides naturally develop in spite of the common misconception that it is homogeneous. Even in a volunteer group, such as this, good public relations between levels does need to be looked at from time to time; and in my experience will not naturally develop unless someone sets themselves the task to ensure that a 'them and us' attitude situation doesn't develop. In some ways I suppose that was actually the point I was trying to make. The women in my office would say that the group needs a woman's touch ;-) to remind the boys there is more to this than the gears and wheels. Thanks, Martin, for your input to this discussion and showing you understand in some way why this came up in the first place. I hope that my sticking my neck out like this hasn't been too disruptive and some good may come of it. Morris On Jun 10, 4:59 am, Martin Budden <[email protected]> wrote: > Morris, > > like Chris, I don't like to distinguish between users and developers > in a software community. This is particularly true with TiddlyWiki > where the division between user and developer is especially blurred. > > I'm very pleased that MarkS is developing a plugin using jQuery, and > that he is getting help and encouragement from the community. I didn't > feel any need to praise his efforts, since there was/is quite a > conversation going on around the work he is doing. > > Perhaps that was remiss of me. If so then I apologise. > > Martin > > 2009/6/9 FND <[email protected]>: > > > > >> I'm wondering if the first jQuery plugin since jQuery was implemented > >> into the TiddlyWiki core isn't worth someone acknowledging? > > > In line with what Chris has already said, I feel Treeview was being > > acclaimed by the community. > > >> You are out of date. > > > Perhaps this is part of the problem (if there is one); if I remember > > correctly, the development progress was discussed in several fairly > > lengthy threads, which made the breakthroughs not very visible. > > >> Morris [...] I think you are highly loved! > > > Indeed, the TiddlyWiki community would be poorer without you. > > While I might not always agree with your opinion or attitude, the > > discourse is no doubt valuable. > > > -- F. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWikiDev" group. 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