This thread )and others like it) seems to be the best argument possible for 
keeping religion out of the classroom in psychology. Some random 
observations that I hope will serve to distinguish between what is said and 
what is often interpreted.
Some eminent scientists have spoken at seminars concerning the conjunction 
of religion and science. My reading of the scientists comments is that they 
allow the slight possibility of a "first cause" type of supreme being. Of 
course the sponsoring seminars are paying large sums of money for these 
vague statements, which has no influence whatsoever on their comments I am 
sure. By the time these statements get filtered down to students and 
nonprofessionals the argument becomes a statement that even eminent 
scientists now admit to being in a Christian, or personal God, which is not 
what these academicians are saying.
The term "Christian" has been usurped by more fundamentalist believers so 
that it refers to a belief in strict interpretation of the Bible and a God 
that is omniscient and omnipotent. This religious view seems to be totally 
incompatible, in my opinion, with rational science as espoused by most 
research scientists, whether psychologists or physicists.
Many of my students have naive beliefs that they have never questioned. 
Although I have no religious beliefs whatsoever, I am reluctant to dismiss 
their ideas since I would be giving them nothing in return. In my biological 
psychology and experimental psychology classes I try to point out the 
difficult of testing the concept of a supreme being who could either decide 
to intervene in human affairs or decide not to, since this leads to a 
circular argument. I have discussed the various studies that attempt to show 
an effect of prayer on recovery from illness from the standpoint of 
methodological concerns. In teaching Abnormal, I try to demonstrate that for 
someone who believes in "sin" and religious explanations for psychological 
disorders violation of religious norms can lead to anxiety and other 
problems, but it is the belief in the importance of the religious beliefs 
that is responsible for the anxiety. I think it is also valid to point out 
that OCD can take the form of excessive religiosity which is different than 
ordinary religious beliefs.


Harry Avis PhD
Sierra College
Rocklin, CA 95677
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Life is opinion - Marcus Aurelius
There is nothing that is good or bad, but that thinking makes it so     - 
Shakespeare



>From: jim clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Teaching in the Psychological Sciences" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: worldviews and educational models
>Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:50:00 -0600 (CST)
>
>Hi
>
>On Mon, 29 Oct 2001, Rick Froman wrote:
> > Of course, the reason she is lonely and not able to get away with those
> > statements is due to her choice of profession and audience. She would 
>feel
> > much less lonely in academe (particularly the social sciences according 
>to
> > some surveys).
>
>Being irreligious is _not_ equivalent to endorsing
>religion-bashing.  In fact, I never talk about religious matters
>in class unless they are directly relevant (e.g., students
>suggest using religiousness as a predictor in a study of beliefs
>about science in my stats and methods course, cultural
>differences in spirituality in my culture and psychology course),
>and then never about my personal beliefs.  I suspect that is true
>of the vast majority of atheists.
>
>This whole debate started, to the best of me recollection,
>because some people appear to believe that their pro-religious
>beliefs are as appropriate and legitimate in the college
>classroom (i.e., psychology class) as are the naturalistic
>beliefs that underlie the scientific method and scientific
>theory.  It was equating the naturalistic and religious
>perspectives, which of course legitimized the introduction of the
>latter into the classroom, that I disagreed with (and will now
>continue to do so even more strongly after this discussion).
>People who introduce religion into the classroom are
>inadvertently inviting the introduction of explicitly atheistic
>views, as represented by the clumsy efforts of the person in
>Rod's example.
>
>Perhaps it is different in Canada where I was educated, but the
>only time I remember religious beliefs being talked about in my
>university education (many years ago) was in my philosophy of
>religion class, when the various proofs for the existence of god
>were discredited on logical (not theistic) grounds (not counting
>many a drunken stupor outside class).  I suspect that there is no
>marked anti-religion proselytizing going on in college
>classrooms, but that agnosticism or atheism are a natural
>consequence of coming to view the world and human beings as
>physical mechanisms.  Of course, a characterization of atheist
>academics as rabid, bible-trashing zealots might be taken by
>those believing it as a justification for their
>counter-proselytizing.
>
>Anyway, I'm off to teach introductory statistics.  Happily (or
>unhappily, as the case may be), talking about the t-test doesn't
>tend to bring religious matters much to the fore, although
>perhaps some students are seeking divine assistance in learning
>the subject matter.  Let's hope they don't accidentally get
>pregnant!
>
>Best wishes
>Jim
>
>============================================================================
>James M. Clark                         (204) 786-9757
>Department of Psychology               (204) 774-4134 Fax
>University of Winnipeg                 4L05D
>Winnipeg, Manitoba  R3B 2E9            [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>CANADA                                 http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/~clark
>============================================================================
>
>
>---
>You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


---
You are currently subscribed to tips as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Reply via email to